Sunday, September 17, 2006
The One Truth That 9/11 Deniers Won't Face
The 9/11 denial movement has enjoyed a measure of success in recent months in gaining national attention. We have seen them on CNN, heard them on radio shows, and their books and websites abound. These conspiracy theorists are eager to confront and deny any truth about the 9/11 tragedies. All except for one. No 9/11 denier is willing to face or admit this truth: They want 9/11 to have been a government conspiracy rather than a terrorist attack.
I do not make such a statement casually. It is based extensive interactions with many 9/11 deniers over several months. I have participated in several Internet forums that discuss 9/11 conspiracy theories. I have even posed as a 9/11 denier to trade theories and rumors. Conspiracists don't arrive at their conclusions based on a skeptical and dispassionate evaluation of forensic evidence or expert analysis. Instead, they avidly embrace and utilize any circumstantial evidence that appears to support their favorite theory. They ignore logic. They employ logical fallacies in their arguments. It is this lack of objectivity and reasoning that betrays the fact that the 9/11 denier is motivated, not by truth, but by the desire to defend and validate their desired theory, namely that 9/11 was "an inside job".
During these interactions, I offered forensic evidence, scientific analysis, photos, simulations, and expert testimony that disproved the myths that underlie many conspiracy theories. For my temerity, I was rewarded with insults and name-calling, and I was frequently labeled as a "government shill" or a "paid disinformation agent". According to the 9/11 deniers, this information had been manufactured or influenced by "the conspiracy cabal." Thus, rather than evaluating the offered information, 9/11 deniers attacked both the messenger and the source.
For example, during an exchange on the theory that the Twin Towers collapsed due to demolition explosives, I questioned the lack of support of this theory by any demolitions expert or structural engineer. I noted that NIST, as part of its extensive investigation, had enlisted the services of hundreds of professionals including engineers, scientists, architects, and demolitions experts. Wouldn't the findings of these professionals be considered valid expert analysis? The answer according to the conspiracy theorist was "no". Why? Because, to the 9/11 denier, NIST is a government agency controlled by the conspiracy. And, no engineers have come forward because they are being suborned with "lucrative" government contracts.
In Stephen Covey's seminal work, "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People", one habit is "begin with the end in mind". That habit is excellent for organizing projects. However, it is utterly out of place in the search for truth and answers. Scientific rigor and methodical evaluation of possibilities are keys to finding answers and truth. The conspiracy theorists, however, have fully internalized the "begin with the end in mind" habit in regards to 9/11. In their case, the "end" is that our government, in some shape or manner, perpetrated the 9/11 attacks or knowingly allowed them to occur. They start with that goal in mind and work backwards to find any circumstantial evidence that might support that goal.
Recent polls have suggested that this 9/11 denial viewpoint might encompass up to one-third of Americans. For example, an August poll by the Scripps Survey Research Center at Ohio University found that "More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East." Of course, the same poll also found that 38% believe that the government assassinated President Kennedy and 40% believe that the government is hiding the existence of extra-terrestrial life. Perhaps paranoid conspiracism is simply a mindset of our times.
In investigating the details of this poll, several interesting findings came to light. The detailed results that prompted the conclusion noted in the preceding paragraph show that 16% thought that government involvement was "very likely", 20% thought it "somewhat likely" and 59% thought it "not likely" while 5% didn't care to answer. However, when asked very specific questions on likely conspiracy theories, rather than a general question, the results dropped. Only 6% thought it "very likely" that a missile hit the Pentagon or that the Twin Towers were collapsed by demolition explosives compared to 80% who found those scenarios "not likely".
This poll also identified a rising level of anger against the federal government and concluded that "Widespread resentment and alienation toward the national government appears to be fueling a growing acceptance of conspiracy theories". The poll also noted that those most likely to accept conspiracy theories included young adults, frequent Internet users, Democrats, racial and ethnic minorities, and those with only a high school education.
Why do I mention this poll and note these results? Because they again demonstrate that 9/11 deniers are motivated, not by a desire to find an objective and scientifically demonstrable truth, but rather because they want 9/11 to have been a conspiracy rather than a terrorist attack. A government conspiracy validates their anger at the federal government, it helps their political and/or societal agenda. An "inside job" suits the goals of these people far more than the reality of the worldwide terrorist threat.
The 9/11 deniers refer to themselves as "truth activists". That is a half-truth. They are certainly activists. But they are not pursuing truth.
I do not make such a statement casually. It is based extensive interactions with many 9/11 deniers over several months. I have participated in several Internet forums that discuss 9/11 conspiracy theories. I have even posed as a 9/11 denier to trade theories and rumors. Conspiracists don't arrive at their conclusions based on a skeptical and dispassionate evaluation of forensic evidence or expert analysis. Instead, they avidly embrace and utilize any circumstantial evidence that appears to support their favorite theory. They ignore logic. They employ logical fallacies in their arguments. It is this lack of objectivity and reasoning that betrays the fact that the 9/11 denier is motivated, not by truth, but by the desire to defend and validate their desired theory, namely that 9/11 was "an inside job".
During these interactions, I offered forensic evidence, scientific analysis, photos, simulations, and expert testimony that disproved the myths that underlie many conspiracy theories. For my temerity, I was rewarded with insults and name-calling, and I was frequently labeled as a "government shill" or a "paid disinformation agent". According to the 9/11 deniers, this information had been manufactured or influenced by "the conspiracy cabal." Thus, rather than evaluating the offered information, 9/11 deniers attacked both the messenger and the source.
For example, during an exchange on the theory that the Twin Towers collapsed due to demolition explosives, I questioned the lack of support of this theory by any demolitions expert or structural engineer. I noted that NIST, as part of its extensive investigation, had enlisted the services of hundreds of professionals including engineers, scientists, architects, and demolitions experts. Wouldn't the findings of these professionals be considered valid expert analysis? The answer according to the conspiracy theorist was "no". Why? Because, to the 9/11 denier, NIST is a government agency controlled by the conspiracy. And, no engineers have come forward because they are being suborned with "lucrative" government contracts.
In Stephen Covey's seminal work, "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People", one habit is "begin with the end in mind". That habit is excellent for organizing projects. However, it is utterly out of place in the search for truth and answers. Scientific rigor and methodical evaluation of possibilities are keys to finding answers and truth. The conspiracy theorists, however, have fully internalized the "begin with the end in mind" habit in regards to 9/11. In their case, the "end" is that our government, in some shape or manner, perpetrated the 9/11 attacks or knowingly allowed them to occur. They start with that goal in mind and work backwards to find any circumstantial evidence that might support that goal.
Recent polls have suggested that this 9/11 denial viewpoint might encompass up to one-third of Americans. For example, an August poll by the Scripps Survey Research Center at Ohio University found that "More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East." Of course, the same poll also found that 38% believe that the government assassinated President Kennedy and 40% believe that the government is hiding the existence of extra-terrestrial life. Perhaps paranoid conspiracism is simply a mindset of our times.
In investigating the details of this poll, several interesting findings came to light. The detailed results that prompted the conclusion noted in the preceding paragraph show that 16% thought that government involvement was "very likely", 20% thought it "somewhat likely" and 59% thought it "not likely" while 5% didn't care to answer. However, when asked very specific questions on likely conspiracy theories, rather than a general question, the results dropped. Only 6% thought it "very likely" that a missile hit the Pentagon or that the Twin Towers were collapsed by demolition explosives compared to 80% who found those scenarios "not likely".
This poll also identified a rising level of anger against the federal government and concluded that "Widespread resentment and alienation toward the national government appears to be fueling a growing acceptance of conspiracy theories". The poll also noted that those most likely to accept conspiracy theories included young adults, frequent Internet users, Democrats, racial and ethnic minorities, and those with only a high school education.
Why do I mention this poll and note these results? Because they again demonstrate that 9/11 deniers are motivated, not by a desire to find an objective and scientifically demonstrable truth, but rather because they want 9/11 to have been a conspiracy rather than a terrorist attack. A government conspiracy validates their anger at the federal government, it helps their political and/or societal agenda. An "inside job" suits the goals of these people far more than the reality of the worldwide terrorist threat.
The 9/11 deniers refer to themselves as "truth activists". That is a half-truth. They are certainly activists. But they are not pursuing truth.
Posted by The Masked Protester @ 7:37 AM 
Comments:
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Nice diatribe. So, what's the "one truth" that "deniers" won't face? The fact that they don't just believe the government's own conspiracy theory?
# posted by 
: 11:58 AM
: 11:58 AM
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646
911Truth.org :::::
http://journalof911studies.com/
The information contained in these two websites alone proves beyond ANY reasonable doubt the truths about 9/11.
And it doesn't matter if one believes it or not, or if one wants it to be true or not...the truth has one absolutely quality:
the truth IS the truth.
End of story.
911Truth.org :::::
http://journalof911studies.com/
The information contained in these two websites alone proves beyond ANY reasonable doubt the truths about 9/11.
And it doesn't matter if one believes it or not, or if one wants it to be true or not...the truth has one absolutely quality:
the truth IS the truth.
End of story.
# posted by : 12:29 PM
: 12:29 PM
Please read the new book "Towers of Deception"
If you still deny after reading this book that there was either a conspiracy or total incompetence by the US Government, then it is YOU that is incapable of facing the Truth.
If you still deny after reading this book that there was either a conspiracy or total incompetence by the US Government, then it is YOU that is incapable of facing the Truth.
# posted by : 12:54 PM
: 12:54 PM
ITS YOUR JOB TO POST THIS MESS(A DEBUNKER)FOR THE PEOPLE WHO THINK
SOMEONE WHO TRAINED ON A CROP DUSTER COULD FLY A JET INTO THE TOWERS,LIVE IN TRAILER PARKS'PRACTICE INNER FAMILY
MARRIAGE AND BELIEVE T.V. WRESTLING IS
REAL.
SOMEONE WHO TRAINED ON A CROP DUSTER COULD FLY A JET INTO THE TOWERS,LIVE IN TRAILER PARKS'PRACTICE INNER FAMILY
MARRIAGE AND BELIEVE T.V. WRESTLING IS
REAL.
# posted by : 1:29 PM
: 1:29 PM
In order to believe that 9/11 was an inside job, one is required to embrace the following contradictions:
1. Two jet airliners crashed into the Twin Towers.
2. The Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition.
Which leads to the following question: Just having the hijacked airliners crashing into the Twin Towers would have been enough to galvanize the American public into supporting Bush's war on terror even if the towers were still standing today. Why then would it be necessary to bring down the towers by controlled demolition?
According to the conspiracy theorists, two jetliners crashed into the Twin Towers, and yet the Pentagon was hit by a missile.
If 9/11 was an inside job, and the conspirators used jet airliners to crash into the towers, why would they use a missile for the Pentagon?
Lastly, if 9/11 was an inside job, and an airliner did not hit the Pentagon, then where is Barbara Olsen? Either she is dead and her husband serves an administration that killed her wife, or she is alive and living in incognito.
1. Two jet airliners crashed into the Twin Towers.
2. The Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition.
Which leads to the following question: Just having the hijacked airliners crashing into the Twin Towers would have been enough to galvanize the American public into supporting Bush's war on terror even if the towers were still standing today. Why then would it be necessary to bring down the towers by controlled demolition?
According to the conspiracy theorists, two jetliners crashed into the Twin Towers, and yet the Pentagon was hit by a missile.
If 9/11 was an inside job, and the conspirators used jet airliners to crash into the towers, why would they use a missile for the Pentagon?
Lastly, if 9/11 was an inside job, and an airliner did not hit the Pentagon, then where is Barbara Olsen? Either she is dead and her husband serves an administration that killed her wife, or she is alive and living in incognito.
# posted by : 1:30 PM
: 1:30 PM
Government cover up or not, there is a history of such action to consider...
Before Pearl Harbour was attacked, the Japanese did everything but come out and tell the US that they were attacking... Most reports state that Truman knew of the attacks some 11 hours before the first wave hit... And yet they did nothing... Why? Because it was a PR ploy to draw the US in to the war... By not doing anything the government was able to turn public favour on their side and go to war with the Axis powers...
If the US government knew about 9/11 before it happened, what better a way to stimulate the stagnating economy then by declaring war on terror?
Before Pearl Harbour was attacked, the Japanese did everything but come out and tell the US that they were attacking... Most reports state that Truman knew of the attacks some 11 hours before the first wave hit... And yet they did nothing... Why? Because it was a PR ploy to draw the US in to the war... By not doing anything the government was able to turn public favour on their side and go to war with the Axis powers...
If the US government knew about 9/11 before it happened, what better a way to stimulate the stagnating economy then by declaring war on terror?
# posted by : 1:31 PM
: 1:31 PM
pearl harbor? Truman? Those do not coincide. At least get parallel facts to one point
# posted by : 1:44 PM
: 1:44 PM
UFOs, Kennedy, Pearl Harbor: is it any wonder Oliver Stone did the 911 movie and the Kennedy Assination movie. Maybe the movie "Dave" was reality based. Or should I say "is" reality based. Oh, it wasn't explained and I just don't have time to read all this crap but did "our guys" blow up the Pentagon too and what does this have to do with the Montauk project and the Philadelphia Experiment? I am sure there is some connection here (or there).
# posted by : 2:05 PM
: 2:05 PM
Why is it that the naysayers have to lump everyone into one category? Isn't it possible that the truth lies somewhere in between? Isn't it possible that some people are just tired of the lies the Bush administration has consistently fed us (ie WMD)? And that now we really don't trust the government...Suppose some people in Washington did know about the attacks and decided to do nothing and then justify military action in the mideast. Suppose Larry Silverstein or some others were tipped off and decided to take advantage of an attack to there own ends. It all does not have to fit together in one grand plan. Could be some people just manipulating things for their own purposes. Wouldn't a thinking person be interested in the possibilities? I still think the science of the way those buildings fell does not add up if no explosives were involved. In several videos from different sources you can see puffs of smoke (explosions?) lower down from the impact zone just as the buildings were collapsing. Makes me, a thinking person, think, ask questions. I am not a crazy conspiracy theorist.
# posted by : 2:32 PM
: 2:32 PM
Very nice article.
One other thing i have noticed about conspiracy theorists is that they almost always tend to use facts given by books or internet websites, while those who defend the government have their facts straight more often, and will more often than not use actual forensics instead of just "coincidences" and assumptions.
The fact is, some people refuse to believe that their strong, invincible country was defeated by 19 guys with box cutters and knives, so they look for others to blame. Same as with JFK, people refused to believe that one person could kill such a powerful man, so they accused an entire government.
One other thing i have noticed about conspiracy theorists is that they almost always tend to use facts given by books or internet websites, while those who defend the government have their facts straight more often, and will more often than not use actual forensics instead of just "coincidences" and assumptions.
The fact is, some people refuse to believe that their strong, invincible country was defeated by 19 guys with box cutters and knives, so they look for others to blame. Same as with JFK, people refused to believe that one person could kill such a powerful man, so they accused an entire government.
# posted by : 2:37 PM
: 2:37 PM
Bill, one explanation for the puffs of smoke is that when the top floors of the building collapsed, the air got pushed down to the next floor below and then out the windows.
Also, it wasn't a matter of the steel columns melting. The heat from the fire caused by the fuel explosion weakened the supporting trusses to the point that as they softened, they sagged, which pulled in the outer stell columns and this is what caused the towers to collapse into their own footprint.
9/11 conspiracy theorists make much of the the fact that the second tower hit was the first to fall. But it makes perfect sense because the impact in the second tower was lower than the first tower. Thus, the weakened trusses in the second tower had to support more weight than the first tower.
Also, it wasn't a matter of the steel columns melting. The heat from the fire caused by the fuel explosion weakened the supporting trusses to the point that as they softened, they sagged, which pulled in the outer stell columns and this is what caused the towers to collapse into their own footprint.
9/11 conspiracy theorists make much of the the fact that the second tower hit was the first to fall. But it makes perfect sense because the impact in the second tower was lower than the first tower. Thus, the weakened trusses in the second tower had to support more weight than the first tower.
# posted by : 2:38 PM
: 2:38 PM
Look up Revalation 9:11 that will answer everything you need to know about this "conspiracy"- signs of the time folks Jesus is comming soon!!!!
# posted by : 2:54 PM
: 2:54 PM
my 1st reaction to seeing the shanksville site was " where's the plane parts ?"...to say i wanted it to be an inside job is incorrect i still find it hard to believe ...no i don't want to believe it could be an inside job , but too many things don't add up , if the towers collapsed due to a stress failure why did they fall so cleanly , where did the wings go on the plane that hit the pentagon ?
# posted by : 2:59 PM
: 2:59 PM
On this one aren't we all conspiracy nuts? Can we agree that yes indeed that this was a consipiracy since there was more than one person involved. So then it is only a matter of which conspiracy you choose to believe. Labeling people who do not believe this government's version of this conspiracy does not neccesarily make them a nut. Maybe we owe our citizens who perished in that disaster and their family the truth whatever that may be. Excluding the politics and to hold whomever caused this accountable.
The current political climate has proven we cannot trust what this group says on anything. It is long past time for independent thinking and questions asked. We don't need a patriotic act... we need citizens to act like patriots. Questioning this government and the events surrounding 9/11 would make a good start.
The current political climate has proven we cannot trust what this group says on anything. It is long past time for independent thinking and questions asked. We don't need a patriotic act... we need citizens to act like patriots. Questioning this government and the events surrounding 9/11 would make a good start.
# posted by : 3:02 PM
: 3:02 PM
Ignorance is bliss. Try to rise above your fears and accept the facts.
These buildings were taken down.
These buildings were taken down.
# posted by : 3:10 PM
: 3:10 PM
I've got a friend who tries to blame Dick Cheney.(sp?)My question is: What could he offer 19 people to make them want to commit suicide for his agenda?
# posted by : 3:12 PM
: 3:12 PM
Excuse me, just WHO is in denial here??
There are people who just cannot accept the fact the U.S. is capable of something like this. That we are always and forever "the good guys" in the white hats.
I leave them to their own lame excuses and their fantasies-- and their fear.
It's pretty safe to say that at this point, the real "nut" is the one who still believes those buildings were not pulled.
I ask those who blindly believe the 9/11 report to overcome their fears and accept the reality.
There are people who just cannot accept the fact the U.S. is capable of something like this. That we are always and forever "the good guys" in the white hats.
I leave them to their own lame excuses and their fantasies-- and their fear.
It's pretty safe to say that at this point, the real "nut" is the one who still believes those buildings were not pulled.
I ask those who blindly believe the 9/11 report to overcome their fears and accept the reality.
# posted by : 3:18 PM
: 3:18 PM
ummmm, what happened to all the people on the airliner that hit the pentagon-- living somewhere else under the federal witness protection program? killed after they got on the plane and disposed of (as was the plane) did we just imagine that a lot of people got on a regularly scheduled airliner that day and it never turned up?
while i agree that the government conceals lot of its activities, there is always a leak sooner or later. i don't thnk our government is competent enough to pull off anytjing on this scale.
while i agree that the government conceals lot of its activities, there is always a leak sooner or later. i don't thnk our government is competent enough to pull off anytjing on this scale.
# posted by : 3:20 PM
: 3:20 PM
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
--Joseph Goebbels
Propaganda Minister for the Nazis
but is being put into work by Dick Cheney and Company
--Joseph Goebbels
Propaganda Minister for the Nazis
but is being put into work by Dick Cheney and Company
# posted by : 3:21 PM
: 3:21 PM
Nice article but a waste of time. There is one unrefutable fact about conspiracy theorists and that is that they are right. 100% right even if you showed them actual proof debunking their theory they will not agree with the truth unless it favors them.
# posted by : 3:24 PM
: 3:24 PM
who wrote this? it doesnt matter whether they believe one way or another- you've thrown them all into a box and accuse them of all 'wanting the attacks to have been cause by our government.' don't you think average joe republican wishes there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq? groups of people may believe one way or the other, but you seem to only want to discount any real fact they have brought up. good job, lets hate people for using their american rights and raising questions. americans should question their government. articles like this are as much propaganda as anything else- these are the same people that say 'protesting is un-patriotic. it is america! you can love a country and disagree with its government. with the money spent on Iraq in the last few years, we could have had 3 meals a day for every homeless person in our country, as well as housing. why dont you write an article on that? why isnt that the top story?
# posted by : 3:26 PM
: 3:26 PM
if this is just a theory our govt could debunk it all by simply releasing proof otherwise , why did it take over 4 yrs for one very fuzzy piture to be released of the object that flew into the pentagon when they have the film from all the surrounding security cameras to choose from ...how come so much is still considered classified when they tell us who did what and how ?????
# posted by : 3:27 PM
: 3:27 PM
Some people need to get a LIFE an stop with the Bush did this an the Goverment did this crap. Either you believe or you dont its rather simple. I was there in NYC an saw 1st hand what happened. But im sure somebody will say i was dreaming right..Get Real
# posted by : 3:32 PM
: 3:32 PM
Surprising.
Another website that is "telling the truth" according to the gospel of the bush docterine. I suppose that you will also tell us that the aforementioned didn't really want us to go to war; that he doesn't really have secret prisons or that he doesn't want us to rewrite the Geneva Convention to fit his needs....all of that is nothing more than left-wing media propaganda, huh?
I wonder who you REALLY are and who is funding your website; probably the same nazis that are funding the "war" on terror..........and, some of your posts are correct; you tend to lump anyone who disagrees with this administration as crackpots, deniers, nuts, etc.........
Oh, well. You might have just as well gone and called them "evildoers".
Another website that is "telling the truth" according to the gospel of the bush docterine. I suppose that you will also tell us that the aforementioned didn't really want us to go to war; that he doesn't really have secret prisons or that he doesn't want us to rewrite the Geneva Convention to fit his needs....all of that is nothing more than left-wing media propaganda, huh?
I wonder who you REALLY are and who is funding your website; probably the same nazis that are funding the "war" on terror..........and, some of your posts are correct; you tend to lump anyone who disagrees with this administration as crackpots, deniers, nuts, etc.........
Oh, well. You might have just as well gone and called them "evildoers".
# posted by : 3:35 PM
: 3:35 PM
I rejoice that I live in a country where every opinion, no matter how antagonistic can be heard.
If you really believe our government masterminded 9/11 what sort of outcome are you looking for? A change in command? That "someone" be held accountable? What is your point. Agitation for the sake of agitation goes nowhere. If you think our government is so oppressive, then exercise your right to move to another country.
I'm as sick of conspiracy theorists as I am sick of Muslim extremists who want the benefits of living in our country at the same time they support its demise. If you don't want to assimilate, then get out.
If you really believe our government masterminded 9/11 what sort of outcome are you looking for? A change in command? That "someone" be held accountable? What is your point. Agitation for the sake of agitation goes nowhere. If you think our government is so oppressive, then exercise your right to move to another country.
I'm as sick of conspiracy theorists as I am sick of Muslim extremists who want the benefits of living in our country at the same time they support its demise. If you don't want to assimilate, then get out.
# posted by : 3:37 PM
: 3:37 PM
Just a comment on your own lack of research and logic: the scientific method you claim "deniers" don't use is just the opposite of what you described. Scientists first propose a hypothesis, then secondly search for the proof that will back it up. That's what's called directed research. You have to first know what you're looking for before you can search for it. Otherwise you're just relying on dumb luck to make penicillin.
# posted by : 3:50 PM
: 3:50 PM
This is all so pointless, the “monologues of small children playing in the sandbox”.
# posted by : 3:57 PM
: 3:57 PM
So many arguments — so many holes in them, and never enough time to talk this out. I must say I found the original piece unconvincing. I really don't think any "9/11 denier" is running away from the idea that he "wants" to find a government connection. Whether or not the insider theory ever turns out to be true, it certainly is a measure of the widespread distrust our government has fostered. We have seen what kinds of deceit and ruthlessness it is capable of, so now the insider theory seems to fit the pattern perfectly. Also, in response to one Tommykey argument, one reason for the controlled demolition theory may be that allowing the planes to just hit the towers would be far more risky in terms of the amount of devastation possible. The towers or parts of them might have toppled over, causing much more widespread damage. It would have been a logical precaution — a controlled disaster. I think this discussion is a healthy outlet and it would be more so without name-calling and innuendo.
# posted by : 3:59 PM
: 3:59 PM
Doesn't anybody find it odd that the same government that is supposedly clever enough to pull off this kind of monstrous conspiracy wasn't clever enough to just make a few weapons of mass destruction magically appear in Iraq. Which sounds more difficult to pull off to you?
# posted by : 4:04 PM
: 4:04 PM
I must say that I found your story very thin - interesting stats - but I would have say that when there is as high a point on teh curve as you ahve demonstrated, then perhaps it bears looking into.
THe bell curve and pascals triangle should only show about 20 to 25 % in thos areas of belief. When you consider that the rate id higher than actually staistacally probable then there is a truth that is missing from the mix of information.
Perhaps you would be better served by finding the truth rather than being a red herring.
Cheers.
Don Pence
THe bell curve and pascals triangle should only show about 20 to 25 % in thos areas of belief. When you consider that the rate id higher than actually staistacally probable then there is a truth that is missing from the mix of information.
Perhaps you would be better served by finding the truth rather than being a red herring.
Cheers.
Don Pence
# posted by : 4:23 PM
: 4:23 PM
I am stunned that anyone can believe
that 9/11 was an inside job or anything of the sort.
It was committed by terrorists, end of story.
The concept that something this big could be covered up is nonsense.
I think intelligent, rational people can only come to the conclusion that the conspiracy theories are all nonsense.
Greetings from London.
that 9/11 was an inside job or anything of the sort.
It was committed by terrorists, end of story.
The concept that something this big could be covered up is nonsense.
I think intelligent, rational people can only come to the conclusion that the conspiracy theories are all nonsense.
Greetings from London.
# posted by : 4:23 PM
: 4:23 PM
To those who believe 9/11 was an inside job: do you, then, believe that the incredible incompetence of the Bush administration is just show? I mean, look at them! They mess up everything they do -- and they usually mess up big.
So how is it that this one thing, this conspiracy, they pull off without a hitch? I mean, if it's a conspiracy, a large number of people have to know, yet not a single person lets the secret slip. And all other aspects have been handled perfectly so they avoid detection.
Either the administration is actually MUCH more competent than they appear, and the buffoonery is meant to throw us off track; or they would not have been able to pull off this elaborate "sleight of hand".
So, is that what you think? These guys are actually extremely competent? Have we seen any indication that is possible?
So how is it that this one thing, this conspiracy, they pull off without a hitch? I mean, if it's a conspiracy, a large number of people have to know, yet not a single person lets the secret slip. And all other aspects have been handled perfectly so they avoid detection.
Either the administration is actually MUCH more competent than they appear, and the buffoonery is meant to throw us off track; or they would not have been able to pull off this elaborate "sleight of hand".
So, is that what you think? These guys are actually extremely competent? Have we seen any indication that is possible?
# posted by : 4:40 PM
: 4:40 PM
tommykey says the trusses softened
and pulled the columns "in"...
almost right, but not quite.
Everyone conspiricy theorist yelps about the melting point of structural steel...as if the only way for the towers to collapse was to melt the steel columns...
which "couldnt have happen because jet fuel doesnt get that hot..." Probably right.
Melting point shmelting point.
The only requirement for the vertical colums to fail (buckle) is for the horizontal trusses to
fail: Which they did. They, much more slender in section, did get the heat treatment, stretched, softened, broke from plane impact, were compromisedand became disengaged from the vertical columns to the extent that the vertical columns were vulnerable.
The horizontal trusses were fastened to the vertical columns by a pin joint, yes by a pin. Each and every one. A floor's worth (or several) of those pinned joints failed because, as tommykey said, the trusses softened...and stretched (massive heat and weight), letting the columns bow out. Now, no one needs to claim a conspiracy theory to explain that the weight of some 30-40 floors of a skyscaper above such a compromised joint would domino the building flat. Let that amount of weight fall a distance of 12' and
there you have it.
The unsupported (by horizontal trusses) vertical columns of a few stories can only stay vertical for so long before they buckle.
Watch the film of the first tower collapsing and this is exactly what is seen. The vertical columns, one by one, in the NE corner, bowed and bent outward.. and failed. They snapped like twigs under such intense compressive load.
This BS about explosives is...BS.
and pulled the columns "in"...
almost right, but not quite.
Everyone conspiricy theorist yelps about the melting point of structural steel...as if the only way for the towers to collapse was to melt the steel columns...
which "couldnt have happen because jet fuel doesnt get that hot..." Probably right.
Melting point shmelting point.
The only requirement for the vertical colums to fail (buckle) is for the horizontal trusses to
fail: Which they did. They, much more slender in section, did get the heat treatment, stretched, softened, broke from plane impact, were compromisedand became disengaged from the vertical columns to the extent that the vertical columns were vulnerable.
The horizontal trusses were fastened to the vertical columns by a pin joint, yes by a pin. Each and every one. A floor's worth (or several) of those pinned joints failed because, as tommykey said, the trusses softened...and stretched (massive heat and weight), letting the columns bow out. Now, no one needs to claim a conspiracy theory to explain that the weight of some 30-40 floors of a skyscaper above such a compromised joint would domino the building flat. Let that amount of weight fall a distance of 12' and
there you have it.
The unsupported (by horizontal trusses) vertical columns of a few stories can only stay vertical for so long before they buckle.
Watch the film of the first tower collapsing and this is exactly what is seen. The vertical columns, one by one, in the NE corner, bowed and bent outward.. and failed. They snapped like twigs under such intense compressive load.
This BS about explosives is...BS.
# posted by : 4:41 PM
: 4:41 PM
Every "scientific" explanation for the collapse of the twin towers has included the intense heat of the burning fuel as the catalyst for the collapse. This has been a universal explanation by the shill scientists. But NONE of them have offered an explanation of the collapse of WTC Building #7. No plane crashed into that building. No fuel reached that building. Its fire was ignited by faling debris, yet it collapsed, as well. If one merely looks at the history of large buildings of that stature that have caught fire and, in some cases, burned for DAYS, not a single one of them has ever imploded. Never mind the fact that the heat from the burning fuel was never hot enough to cause serious damage to the steel trusses of the WTC Buildings #1 & 2. There is absolutely no possible explanation for the collapse of those buildings so quickly after the planes hit them, other than controlled, planned demolition exxplosives. And by the way, the Underwriters Laboratory scientists agree with THAT theory, and since they are totally independent of the government, and their reputation is beyond any reproach, I will allow my mind to accept what they are saying LONG BEOFORE I WILL EVER ACCEPT THE POSITION OF A LYING, CHEATING, DISHONEST, CORRUPT GOVERNMENT AND ITS SHILLS. I don't know what happened at the Pentagon, but some things clearly don't add up. I don't know what happened in Pennsylvania, but the official story certainly does NOT add up. If this government doesn't want conspiracies, then they should make a llittle more sense, because anyone with half a brain cannot possibly swallow the giant heaping steaming pile of B.S. they are attempting to shove down our throats. And for the record, it is physically IMPOSSIBLE that Oswald singlehandedly shot Kennedy. I live in Dallas, I have been to the site, and I have seen the photos and footage that have still never been shown in the mainstream news media. When you are shot in the head from behind, a large section of your skull FROM THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD with brain attached does NOT go flying BACKWARD. There would be an entry wound in the back that would be a little larger than the diameter of the bullet, and then a larger sectioin of the FRONT of your skull, or a piece of your FACE would explode off of your head, and would be propelled FORWARD. That is the ONLY possible outcome of an Oswald shot to Kennedy's head. Unfortunately for the morons who believe the physically impossible scenario proposed by the Warren Commission report, that is NOT what happened. I have SEEN the photo of the shooter on the grassy knoll. He exists. It really happened. Kennedy's assassination was nothing less than a coup d'etat. PERIOD. I am not a nut for believing this. I am a doctor with a solid background in physics and anatomy. The logic is impossible to escape. The people who favor the government's theories literally have to ignore science and logic to believe that position. Not all of the conspiracies make sense, but many of them are irrefutable, and completely bury the government's stories in inescapable LOGIC.
# posted by : 4:55 PM
: 4:55 PM
Ok, let's just say I buy your "theory". Here's another conspiracy theory for you. Could it be that Osama is still on the loose because he is still on the CIA payroll?
# posted by : 4:55 PM
: 4:55 PM
Let's see now, Santa Claus lives at the north Pole. The Tooth Fairy is real. The Easter Bunny lays eggs. Real witches go Boo on halloween. Truman was Vice President to Roosvelt in 1941 at the time of Peral Harbor [Wallace was. Truman was a member of congress at the time.] The Govt. is hidding real live aliens in area 51 that no one know about. The moon is made out of green cheese. And the 9/11 was a govt. plot. Right!!! To anyone who believes any of this, I have for sale Beach front property in the Mojave Desert.
# posted by : 4:57 PM
: 4:57 PM
There's no profit in helping the homeless...open your eyes, this is a nation run by corporations.
# posted by : 4:58 PM
: 4:58 PM
Stephen Covey's seminal work, "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People"
Are you serious? Seminal? It should be titled, "Seven habits of highly ineffective middle-management corporate suck-ups."
Big Rocks, Little Rocks. Please.
Are you serious? Seminal? It should be titled, "Seven habits of highly ineffective middle-management corporate suck-ups."
Big Rocks, Little Rocks. Please.
# posted by : 5:01 PM
: 5:01 PM
Ok to say that people that only have a high school back ground is WRONG! Half the people who ONLY have had high school can out think most Gov.. people & most people that work for the all powerful Dollar. One more thing to the people that say 9/11 was an in side job, GET A LIFE YOU MAKE ME SICK! One thing that this writer has right is that the truth IS the truth. The USA is going the way of the Romens But we as the People Of the US can & must stand up & make people see that its our power that has mad us fat & dumn. Try reading a book & learn about the past so we don't do the same dumn crap again! IT'S OUR FULT 9/11 HAPPEN, WE KNEW IT WAS COMEING & WE WERE TOLD IT WOULD HAPPEN. WE THOUGHT WE WERE SO BIG THAT NO ONE COULD HIT US. THAY DID, NOW WE NEED TO FIGHT NOT JUST THE ARMY OR NAVY & SO ON BUT THE PEOPLE NEED TO! STOP YELLING AT YOUR SELFS ABOUT HOW & WHO ITS OVER. JUST MAKE SURE IT DUESSNT HAPPEN AGAIN BY HELPING THE USA BECOME WHAT IT WAS! A PLACE WERE PEOPLE CAME FROM ALL OVER TO LEARN LIVE GROW & HELP MAKE THE USA BETTER. Thats all i have to say on all of the crap thats going on.
# posted by : 5:02 PM
: 5:02 PM
Ok, why would our government shoot a missle at the pentagon so they could start a war? Why would they attack a facility that they would have to pay to repair and that controls parts of the military. Also what happened to the plane and it's passengers if it didn't hit the pentagon.
As for the explosives in the towers, some of the head engineers that knew the every inch of the towers died saving people. Do you think there is any way they would not have noticed demolition devices in critical places during the frequent checks they do on the buildings. Also don't try to say the engineers were in on it. If they were they would not have died saving people.
What would the government have to offer somone to fly a plane into the World Trade Center.
End of story, it was a conspiracy theory, but not by our government.
As for the explosives in the towers, some of the head engineers that knew the every inch of the towers died saving people. Do you think there is any way they would not have noticed demolition devices in critical places during the frequent checks they do on the buildings. Also don't try to say the engineers were in on it. If they were they would not have died saving people.
What would the government have to offer somone to fly a plane into the World Trade Center.
End of story, it was a conspiracy theory, but not by our government.
# posted by : 5:09 PM
: 5:09 PM
Tommykey, you don't keep up with current events, do you? You ask why the WTC towers were brought down with a controlled demolition.
The New York Port Authority had sought permits to demolish those buildings for ten years, and were turned down each time by the EPA due to asbestos in the fireproofing. The buildings were an asbestos nightmare. Larry Silverstein took over the WTC lease and immediately took out $3.2 billion in terrorist insurance. He succesfully argued to his insurance company that the two airliner strikes were separate incidents, and so collected DOUBLE his policy's value. The award was reduced by the courts, but ol'Larry walked away with a clear profit of $2.4 billion, and the City of New York got rid of a white elephant with an asbestos problem (which, thanks to the dust from the collapse, is sickening many, many rescue workers even today.) Is $2.4 BILLION in profit a good enough motive for you tommykey?
The New York Port Authority had sought permits to demolish those buildings for ten years, and were turned down each time by the EPA due to asbestos in the fireproofing. The buildings were an asbestos nightmare. Larry Silverstein took over the WTC lease and immediately took out $3.2 billion in terrorist insurance. He succesfully argued to his insurance company that the two airliner strikes were separate incidents, and so collected DOUBLE his policy's value. The award was reduced by the courts, but ol'Larry walked away with a clear profit of $2.4 billion, and the City of New York got rid of a white elephant with an asbestos problem (which, thanks to the dust from the collapse, is sickening many, many rescue workers even today.) Is $2.4 BILLION in profit a good enough motive for you tommykey?
# posted by : 5:24 PM
: 5:24 PM
Tommykey, you don't keep up with current events, do you? You ask why the WTC towers were brought down with a controlled demolition.
The New York Port Authority had sought permits to demolish those buildings for ten years, and were turned down each time by the EPA due to asbestos in the fireproofing. The buildings were an asbestos nightmare. Larry Silverstein took over the WTC lease and immediately took out $3.2 billion in terrorist insurance. He succesfully argued to his insurance company that the two airliner strikes were separate incidents, and so collected DOUBLE his policy's value. The award was reduced by the courts, but ol'Larry walked away with a clear profit of $2.4 billion, and the City of New York got rid of a white elephant with an asbestos problem (which, thanks to the dust from the collapse, is sickening many, many rescue workers even today.) Is $2.4 BILLION in profit a good enough motive for you tommykey?
The New York Port Authority had sought permits to demolish those buildings for ten years, and were turned down each time by the EPA due to asbestos in the fireproofing. The buildings were an asbestos nightmare. Larry Silverstein took over the WTC lease and immediately took out $3.2 billion in terrorist insurance. He succesfully argued to his insurance company that the two airliner strikes were separate incidents, and so collected DOUBLE his policy's value. The award was reduced by the courts, but ol'Larry walked away with a clear profit of $2.4 billion, and the City of New York got rid of a white elephant with an asbestos problem (which, thanks to the dust from the collapse, is sickening many, many rescue workers even today.) Is $2.4 BILLION in profit a good enough motive for you tommykey?
# posted by : 5:25 PM
: 5:25 PM
Tommykey, you don't keep up with current events, do you? You ask why the WTC towers were brought down with a controlled demolition.
The New York Port Authority had sought permits to demolish those buildings for ten years, and were turned down each time by the EPA due to asbestos in the fireproofing. The buildings were an asbestos nightmare. Larry Silverstein took over the WTC lease and immediately took out $3.2 billion in terrorist insurance. He succesfully argued to his insurance company that the two airliner strikes were separate incidents, and so collected DOUBLE his policy's value. The award was reduced by the courts, but ol'Larry walked away with a clear profit of $2.4 billion, and the City of New York got rid of a white elephant with an asbestos problem (which, thanks to the dust from the collapse, is sickening many, many rescue workers even today.) Is $2.4 BILLION in profit a good enough motive for you tommykey?
The New York Port Authority had sought permits to demolish those buildings for ten years, and were turned down each time by the EPA due to asbestos in the fireproofing. The buildings were an asbestos nightmare. Larry Silverstein took over the WTC lease and immediately took out $3.2 billion in terrorist insurance. He succesfully argued to his insurance company that the two airliner strikes were separate incidents, and so collected DOUBLE his policy's value. The award was reduced by the courts, but ol'Larry walked away with a clear profit of $2.4 billion, and the City of New York got rid of a white elephant with an asbestos problem (which, thanks to the dust from the collapse, is sickening many, many rescue workers even today.) Is $2.4 BILLION in profit a good enough motive for you tommykey?
# posted by : 5:28 PM
: 5:28 PM
Tommykey, you don't keep up with current events, do you? You ask why the WTC towers were brought down with a controlled demolition.
The New York Port Authority had sought permits to demolish those buildings for ten years, and were turned down each time by the EPA due to asbestos in the fireproofing. The buildings were an asbestos nightmare. Larry Silverstein took over the WTC lease and immediately took out $3.2 billion in terrorist insurance. He succesfully argued to his insurance company that the two airliner strikes were separate incidents, and so collected DOUBLE his policy's value. The award was reduced by the courts, but ol'Larry walked away with a clear profit of $2.4 billion, and the City of New York got rid of a white elephant with an asbestos problem (which, thanks to the dust from the collapse, is sickening many, many rescue workers even today.) Is $2.4 BILLION in profit a good enough motive for you tommykey?
The New York Port Authority had sought permits to demolish those buildings for ten years, and were turned down each time by the EPA due to asbestos in the fireproofing. The buildings were an asbestos nightmare. Larry Silverstein took over the WTC lease and immediately took out $3.2 billion in terrorist insurance. He succesfully argued to his insurance company that the two airliner strikes were separate incidents, and so collected DOUBLE his policy's value. The award was reduced by the courts, but ol'Larry walked away with a clear profit of $2.4 billion, and the City of New York got rid of a white elephant with an asbestos problem (which, thanks to the dust from the collapse, is sickening many, many rescue workers even today.) Is $2.4 BILLION in profit a good enough motive for you tommykey?
# posted by : 5:28 PM
: 5:28 PM
All I can say to those nitwit idiots that believe that the "government" perpetrated 9/11, why don't you list your name as the author of your comments or are you afraid that a missile will be sent at your ramshackle house in the back hills of Appalachia!
# posted by : 5:33 PM
: 5:33 PM
Okay? I like presentations of fact. Fact being either matters of public record or some viable clear evidence. I neither agree nor disagree with either side at this point regarding WTC. Same as I did about JFK, and still do feel. I've always felt that the truth generally lies somewhere in the common ground between the two most diametrically opposed views on a given subject. I am always amused by those who when faced with facts, immediately tell the presenter of fact what that person is "really saying" or what they must "be thinking", or what the presenters "opinion is". I find their interpretation of presented fact and their ready opinion of what "someone else is really thinking or saying" fascinating. Facts are just facts. I believe some people's feelings about some things are upset by facts and their presenters. To protect their idea of what they believe in their mind to be "the truth", or "the facts", is really based a lot of times only on their opinion. Not "the real facts" necessarily. Just the popular "opinion" in their apparently sometime very poorly informed, fact ignorant, incurious, social circle. So, they strike out at anyone who shows them something that may upset that possibly very shallow non fact based opinion. They are threatened by real facts, or have no natural curiosity, or both and it may upset their nice little mainstream generally acceptable in their world, idea or their opinion of what "the truth" really is. I give such seemingly narrow minded peoples "opinions" or "interpretation" of what someone presenting facts "is really saying" with as much credence as I would give information gleaned from reading "tea leaves", tarot cards, or calling a telephone "psychic".
# posted by : 5:36 PM
: 5:36 PM
Isn't it hard to believe that after 5 years that NO ONE with any connection to the "inside job" hasn't slipped up and let the truth out? Don't ANY of the left wing liberals out there think that just ONE of the RIGHT WING radicals has a conscience to tell your so called TRUTH and support your idiotic theories? Maybe you are just waiting for the next Michael Moore movie to fuel your idiocy.
# posted by : 5:50 PM
: 5:50 PM
wow i can't believe the assimulation comment i had no idea the borg debated anything lol and the comment of osama being on the cia patroll makes perfect sense since he seems to only release videos so convientantly just prior to an election tho what i find almost comical is how the non believers of this theory resort to grammer school name calling and lastly i'm staying anonomous since we are told we are either for or against , since dissent is now no longer considered patriotic by the radical right
# posted by : 5:50 PM
: 5:50 PM
so, what is the one truth?
there is one thing i havce never, and probably will never, hear anyone deny.
it happened, and people died.
there is one thing i havce never, and probably will never, hear anyone deny.
it happened, and people died.
# posted by : 6:06 PM
: 6:06 PM
9/11 was a horrific day.
God bless America and its people - and those who were affected by 9/11.
One day, I hope it will go down in the history books - how the US assisted in inhumanly massacring its own people.
Pure evil – that’s what the people behind this day are.
Good and Evil co exist in every person - in every city - in every country.
Its not about colour, religion or creed.
Time for people to have more of an open mind - about what lies beneath the surface of every human being.
Now take a look at the US government and ask yourself ... 'what if…'
I did. ... and i lost a little bit of faith in humanity...
Ill say it again, America and its people - you are truly wonderful..
But - take a minute - and look at whos pulling the strings - ... before they break them....
A. Murphy, 27yrs. Dublin, Ireland.
God bless America and its people - and those who were affected by 9/11.
One day, I hope it will go down in the history books - how the US assisted in inhumanly massacring its own people.
Pure evil – that’s what the people behind this day are.
Good and Evil co exist in every person - in every city - in every country.
Its not about colour, religion or creed.
Time for people to have more of an open mind - about what lies beneath the surface of every human being.
Now take a look at the US government and ask yourself ... 'what if…'
I did. ... and i lost a little bit of faith in humanity...
Ill say it again, America and its people - you are truly wonderful..
But - take a minute - and look at whos pulling the strings - ... before they break them....
A. Murphy, 27yrs. Dublin, Ireland.
# posted by : 6:09 PM
: 6:09 PM
So, what is the one truth? There are a lot of things i see in here, most of which are considered a truth by a good number of people.
There is one truth that nobody, to my knowledge, has or ever will deny.
It happened, and good people died. I'm not saying everyone who died was a good person, but people died.....
(Try actually putting in the fact that your title promises, and maybe I'll think this diatribe is worth more than a laugh at bad writing skills)
There is one truth that nobody, to my knowledge, has or ever will deny.
It happened, and good people died. I'm not saying everyone who died was a good person, but people died.....
(Try actually putting in the fact that your title promises, and maybe I'll think this diatribe is worth more than a laugh at bad writing skills)
# posted by : 6:10 PM
: 6:10 PM
why do some believe that 9/11 was a gov conspiracy?
i agree its a way to express our contempt with our federal government.
look at all the crap we hear - we know its wrong but NO ONE in the gov will speak about what is real
why did the kerry campaign not lift one finger to fight the swift boat crap?
everyone knows bush has been allowing illegal immigration by simply laying off ins agents and instructing those remaining to look the other way
do you know how many laws bush is simply not enforcing?
we know "homeland security" is a joke
we all know we remain open to terrorist attack yet there has'nt been one
because bush admin is sood at wiretapping?
this is the most secretive admin in history
we attacked another country because of "faulty intelligence"
but where is the so called opposition party?
the democrats arent even pointing out the most obvious lies and secrets of this admin
what about the AMERO the secret plan to give up our sovereignty to mexico and canada?
why aren the dems ALL OVER this?
because we now all realize the gov has absolutely stopped having any pretense of being "by the people and for the people"
there is no hope the dems and republicans are both in it together
so 9/11 denial is just a sypmtom of our own inability to control our federal gov
this country is in bad shape dude
hey but it was clintons fault right?
i agree its a way to express our contempt with our federal government.
look at all the crap we hear - we know its wrong but NO ONE in the gov will speak about what is real
why did the kerry campaign not lift one finger to fight the swift boat crap?
everyone knows bush has been allowing illegal immigration by simply laying off ins agents and instructing those remaining to look the other way
do you know how many laws bush is simply not enforcing?
we know "homeland security" is a joke
we all know we remain open to terrorist attack yet there has'nt been one
because bush admin is sood at wiretapping?
this is the most secretive admin in history
we attacked another country because of "faulty intelligence"
but where is the so called opposition party?
the democrats arent even pointing out the most obvious lies and secrets of this admin
what about the AMERO the secret plan to give up our sovereignty to mexico and canada?
why aren the dems ALL OVER this?
because we now all realize the gov has absolutely stopped having any pretense of being "by the people and for the people"
there is no hope the dems and republicans are both in it together
so 9/11 denial is just a sypmtom of our own inability to control our federal gov
this country is in bad shape dude
hey but it was clintons fault right?
# posted by : 6:20 PM
: 6:20 PM
First of all i must respond to ronin comments that conspiracy believers are democratic,racially and ethnic minority,and lack high school education.I'm black,independent,make plenty of money and well educated.Mr ronin why are you a strugling writer with your superior,evidently white,highly educated self cant get a jobas a writer.Is it because of the filth you write and your racist attitude.I bet if you could you would ship all black folk back to Africa.You probably got a swastika tatooed on your forehead,probably the only successful thing you ever done.This is the first I ever heard of a conspiracy theory.Maybe you guys need to watch the credible news or tv like fox news,cnn.msnbc,meet the press and get off the weed and meth ,get out the clouds,stop tripping and stop spending so much time on the internet.And RONIN GET A REAL JOB.
# posted by : 6:35 PM
: 6:35 PM
You know what is the most frightening thing? Nitwits who don't know that FDR was President, not Truman, when Pearl Harbor was attacked and those who believe that the government staged this whole thing. That is absolutely frightening that people who sound off about such nonsense are walking around without restraints.
# posted by : 6:37 PM
: 6:37 PM
I'm not taking sides either way. Here's one for some that do. Remember way back when always without exception on TV, the "Indians" are the "bad guys"? And "cowboys", were the "good guys"? Also the guy in the black hat, was the "bad guy", and the one in the white hat was the "good" guy? President John F. Kennedy was shot by a lone sniper, right? That was the "official" finding by the Warren Comission's investigation [400,000 pages?] There were warnings it was coming. Is it possible not enough was done to protect JFK? The assassination the U.S. once called a "lone act". Who have since then deemed it a "conspiracy". Reversing the earlier government "official" expensive, laborious, time consuming findings that it was a "lone gunman". They just aren't sure whom the conspiracy involved. The U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations has since refuted Warren Comission's "lone sniper" theory. Also, a "conspiracy" is not a "conspiracy theory". A "conspiracy" is a plot by co-conspirators. A "conspiracy theory" is an abstract idea that a conspiracy occurred. The WTC deaths and destruction was a conspiracy, that is a proven fact. Because it included co-conspirators in a evil plot. Conspirators existing of at least the 15 Saudi's, 2 United Arab Emirates, 1 Egypt, and 1 Lebanese national[s]. The Republicaan Party controlled House of Representatives has stated as fact the following recently. "The war in Iraq is in no way connected to the WTC destruction and loss of life." And "Saddam would not co-operate with Al Qaeda." And "Saddam was fearful of another U.S. invasion", following Desert Storm. These are now proven facts, according to the U.S. government. Facts are facts. That's all they are. It's up to each individual to interpret those for themselves. And not what someone who shows or tells them proven facts "is thinking". Please don't tell me what stating these facts means I'm thinking, or that it means I've taken side. No more than a CHP officer presenting facts in an auto collision involving two motorists cares one way or the other who is at fault. Because he presents facts, findings, and witness statements that may prove one car was at fault, does that mean he favors the other party, and is biased? Or is he just stating facts? What is HIS ulterior motive?
# posted by : 6:43 PM
: 6:43 PM
soooooo I'm not a crazy or anything but whats with the whole freefall speed thing? I haven't heard anyone addressing that to disprove it. Don't argue with me, I am just curious. Later
# posted by : 6:45 PM
: 6:45 PM
why is this you ask?
because americans dont participate
in politics
they dont vote they dont know who their senators or congressman are
they cant think beyond what the tv tells them
and some religiuos right whacko from waco gets to do what he wants and they all wonder how it happened?
oh it was a 9/11 conspiracy!
yet they can expend enormous effort to prove conspiracy theories!
if you had voted or cared about who is in office maybe?
i say throw them all out
vote for the nobodies
hey its worth a try!
oh no ill just go back to watching tv and do what exxon and halliburton want watch 9/11 conspiracy videos!
because americans dont participate
in politics
they dont vote they dont know who their senators or congressman are
they cant think beyond what the tv tells them
and some religiuos right whacko from waco gets to do what he wants and they all wonder how it happened?
oh it was a 9/11 conspiracy!
yet they can expend enormous effort to prove conspiracy theories!
if you had voted or cared about who is in office maybe?
i say throw them all out
vote for the nobodies
hey its worth a try!
oh no ill just go back to watching tv and do what exxon and halliburton want watch 9/11 conspiracy videos!
# posted by : 6:47 PM
: 6:47 PM
Just one question. Where's the [plane wreckage from the pentagon. None one the news footage we have seen televised.
# posted by : 6:59 PM
: 6:59 PM
i,m sure history will prove that this administration is no more secret than others we,ve had in the past.
i also refuse to believe than men/women who live to serve and protect this country and it,s citizens would knowingly for any reason, put over 3000 lives of americans at risk of woton slaughter. i think it,s just plain ludicrous to think or believe that. someone would have talked?
on the puffs of smoke. i can better accecpt that it was dust, from just dust in the walls,ceiling,and the floors above along with insulation and sheetrock bursting, and just plain smoke from the fires,than i can placed charges going off.
i also refuse to believe than men/women who live to serve and protect this country and it,s citizens would knowingly for any reason, put over 3000 lives of americans at risk of woton slaughter. i think it,s just plain ludicrous to think or believe that. someone would have talked?
on the puffs of smoke. i can better accecpt that it was dust, from just dust in the walls,ceiling,and the floors above along with insulation and sheetrock bursting, and just plain smoke from the fires,than i can placed charges going off.
# posted by : 7:19 PM
: 7:19 PM
Why are people so unwilling to accept the fact this govt will kill any one of us without thinking twice. In fact, they've been exposed for their plans to do such back in the 1960s. Don't forget, "the hand that rocks the cradle, is the hand that rules the world"...... Debate the FACTS below...........
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662
N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001 In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.
Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.
HMM - In a criminal case, one needs to show, in a court of law, criminal intent of the accused, or premeditation? I think those could be proved. Now only if they would allow us to gather evidence?? Refer back to the first paragraph to the quotation I've included.
End of story.
Debate over.
You lose!
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662
N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001 In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.
Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.
HMM - In a criminal case, one needs to show, in a court of law, criminal intent of the accused, or premeditation? I think those could be proved. Now only if they would allow us to gather evidence?? Refer back to the first paragraph to the quotation I've included.
End of story.
Debate over.
You lose!
# posted by : 7:20 PM
: 7:20 PM
How does exposing a bleeding, festering, stinking infection equate with denial?
I guess the same way the military/industrial complex (that "Ike" warned us about) can call Islamic fundies "Fascists".
Pull the other one bunky, it has bells on it.
I guess the same way the military/industrial complex (that "Ike" warned us about) can call Islamic fundies "Fascists".
Pull the other one bunky, it has bells on it.
# posted by : 7:22 PM
: 7:22 PM
Why is it that truthers have to root every critisism or comment in this absurd idea that we who have rationally come to accept the obvious facts about that day are somehow motivated by fear?
It's that same old idiocy you hear (or heard) spouted at every college party everywhere since the dawn of the modern liberal movement. Some half retarded twenty year old eats a mushroom and thinks he's Socrates and Jim Morrison all rolled into one. "Dude, just look outside the shell man...just see the universe and escape from the fear that holds you in your middle class complacency...dude...man...dude..." Now that same guy is 28 at home in his mom's basement trying to melt paper clips with his bic so that he can show that the heat from the jet fuel couldn't melt the steel structure and bring down the buildings on it's own.
Or maybe now he's a 50 year old college professor telling his sociology class that firefighters thought they heard a bomb go off and the Joos were all notified of the plan by the Bush "regime" on 9/10.
In the end though, it's not we who are afraid. It's not the 75% of Americans who have no bones about believing that 9/11 was the work of foriegn islamic hijackers.
It's you who are afraid. You're afraid that you're not unique. You're afraid that you're not cool. That you're not privy. That you're normal. You're afraid to admit to yourself that you're in this with the rest of us - that they hate you too.
You're SO afraid that the asshole in the suit that get's the hot girl is just as smart or maybe smarter than you, that you take the opposite position that you THINK he might have just to convince yourself that you're not like him - that he's just "sheeple" and doomed to sameness and ignorance.
You NEED to believe that this was a conspiracy by the US Government - if for no other reason than to reinforce your own uniqueness, to convince yourself that you're smarter - that you're seperate - that you're better.
And the embarrasing thing is - just like the retard on shrooms in your dorm room - you really just end up showing your ass.
It's that same old idiocy you hear (or heard) spouted at every college party everywhere since the dawn of the modern liberal movement. Some half retarded twenty year old eats a mushroom and thinks he's Socrates and Jim Morrison all rolled into one. "Dude, just look outside the shell man...just see the universe and escape from the fear that holds you in your middle class complacency...dude...man...dude..." Now that same guy is 28 at home in his mom's basement trying to melt paper clips with his bic so that he can show that the heat from the jet fuel couldn't melt the steel structure and bring down the buildings on it's own.
Or maybe now he's a 50 year old college professor telling his sociology class that firefighters thought they heard a bomb go off and the Joos were all notified of the plan by the Bush "regime" on 9/10.
In the end though, it's not we who are afraid. It's not the 75% of Americans who have no bones about believing that 9/11 was the work of foriegn islamic hijackers.
It's you who are afraid. You're afraid that you're not unique. You're afraid that you're not cool. That you're not privy. That you're normal. You're afraid to admit to yourself that you're in this with the rest of us - that they hate you too.
You're SO afraid that the asshole in the suit that get's the hot girl is just as smart or maybe smarter than you, that you take the opposite position that you THINK he might have just to convince yourself that you're not like him - that he's just "sheeple" and doomed to sameness and ignorance.
You NEED to believe that this was a conspiracy by the US Government - if for no other reason than to reinforce your own uniqueness, to convince yourself that you're smarter - that you're seperate - that you're better.
And the embarrasing thing is - just like the retard on shrooms in your dorm room - you really just end up showing your ass.
# posted by : 7:23 PM
: 7:23 PM
Nobody "wants" 9/11 to have been a government conspiracy rather than a terrorist attack. NOBODY! I just wish that somebody could prove a point that it "was" a terrorist attack.
Every so-called "debunker" has not proved a point about any of the points that "inside job" theory people have.
BTW, nobody is denying that it happened...we're just denying "how" it happened.
Every so-called "debunker" has not proved a point about any of the points that "inside job" theory people have.
BTW, nobody is denying that it happened...we're just denying "how" it happened.
# posted by : 7:26 PM
: 7:26 PM
maybe this is just a planet where all the looney tunes are placed
just one big insane asylum
9/11 was a gov conpiracy by a gov that is probably the most incompetent in history (except at taking your money)!
these bungling buffoons were able to pull off a vast conspiracy on 9/11?
we didnt land on the moon
the oil companies are squashing "free energy"
people can read minds
bend spoons (with their bare brains)
talk to dead people
there are shows on tv featuring "psychic detectives"
and in the sky resides a deity that controls our lives?
when you nutcases wake up to a world
where debtor prisons are common
you have to buy things at the company store
the company you work for has absolute control of your life
(im joking those where things of the past right?)
just keep dithering away at conspiracies like any lunatic should
and im sure when we expose these conspiracies we all will go to heaven and a diety will give us 72 virgins
WAKE UP GET INVOLVED THROW THE BUMS OUT OF OFFICE ALL OF THEM!!
just one big insane asylum
9/11 was a gov conpiracy by a gov that is probably the most incompetent in history (except at taking your money)!
these bungling buffoons were able to pull off a vast conspiracy on 9/11?
we didnt land on the moon
the oil companies are squashing "free energy"
people can read minds
bend spoons (with their bare brains)
talk to dead people
there are shows on tv featuring "psychic detectives"
and in the sky resides a deity that controls our lives?
when you nutcases wake up to a world
where debtor prisons are common
you have to buy things at the company store
the company you work for has absolute control of your life
(im joking those where things of the past right?)
just keep dithering away at conspiracies like any lunatic should
and im sure when we expose these conspiracies we all will go to heaven and a diety will give us 72 virgins
WAKE UP GET INVOLVED THROW THE BUMS OUT OF OFFICE ALL OF THEM!!
# posted by : 7:26 PM
: 7:26 PM
The goverment was behind it, you know it, I know it, Bush know it, the goverment know it.., everybody know it.
the goverment is the real terrorists...!
and if we do not open our eyes soon...by the time we do, it will be to late !
the goverment is the real terrorists...!
and if we do not open our eyes soon...by the time we do, it will be to late !
# posted by : 7:28 PM
: 7:28 PM
If it was not terrorists that commandered the jets and flew them into the towers, then wo did? did the FBI or the CIA or any other covert agency fly these planes into sure death? or mabey they paid a hand picked group of radicals to do it for them? c'mon get real people!
# posted by : 7:29 PM
: 7:29 PM
anyone here ever heard of Dov Zakheim? Probably not...here's the link:
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=101&contentid=1406
how would you highjack a highjacker? I'd do it with this pretty amazing technology that Zaks company manufacturers. No its not 'science fiction' funny that he is also the 'Under Secretary of Defense' and was the pentagon 'comptroller' on Sept, 11 2001. A coincidence of course! Don't believe Me 'average American Citizen' use your google...follow the path of knowledge to the truth.
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=101&contentid=1406
how would you highjack a highjacker? I'd do it with this pretty amazing technology that Zaks company manufacturers. No its not 'science fiction' funny that he is also the 'Under Secretary of Defense' and was the pentagon 'comptroller' on Sept, 11 2001. A coincidence of course! Don't believe Me 'average American Citizen' use your google...follow the path of knowledge to the truth.
# posted by : 7:30 PM
: 7:30 PM
Oh, you sad uninformed man... your rant has said nothing, absolutely nothing.
Open your eyes man!
There is nothing wrong with the US Government per se, merely a few key people in positions of power.
Tell me... does gravity cause concrete and steel to jump up into the air and pulverize/shred itself?
Have you ever seen this phenomenon in nature anywhere in the known universe?
Wake the F*@& UP! America & the world is in trouble right now and we all need to see the next attack for what it is... I'm guessing some kind of small nuclear device to kill say 1-2 million people in new york... probably around election time.
Open your eyes man!
There is nothing wrong with the US Government per se, merely a few key people in positions of power.
Tell me... does gravity cause concrete and steel to jump up into the air and pulverize/shred itself?
Have you ever seen this phenomenon in nature anywhere in the known universe?
Wake the F*@& UP! America & the world is in trouble right now and we all need to see the next attack for what it is... I'm guessing some kind of small nuclear device to kill say 1-2 million people in new york... probably around election time.
# posted by : 7:40 PM
: 7:40 PM
how do you defeat the conspiracy?
spend a little time investigating the people you vote for
and VOTE
GET INVOLVED
sorry what was i thinking ill just keep looking at websites for more info on the velocity of the collapsing towers the co conspirators the lack of aircraft wreckage at the pentagon those poor deluded firefighters who pulled body parts of the passengers of the non existant aircraft hey if its on video it must be true!
dont get involved in politics
get involved in conpiracy theory
because one of these days we will find that "smoking gun"
and sue the shit out of big tobbacco! (their really is a "big tabbaco" and they really do grease a lot of palms)
but go ahead press on we cant change anything anyway we are all defeated all poor whipped puppies we can only do the last thing the gov lets us do - FORMULATE CONSPIRACY THEORIES!
and let exxon and halliburton take over our poor pathetic selves
oh woe is me
ill just smoke this gun
spend a little time investigating the people you vote for
and VOTE
GET INVOLVED
sorry what was i thinking ill just keep looking at websites for more info on the velocity of the collapsing towers the co conspirators the lack of aircraft wreckage at the pentagon those poor deluded firefighters who pulled body parts of the passengers of the non existant aircraft hey if its on video it must be true!
dont get involved in politics
get involved in conpiracy theory
because one of these days we will find that "smoking gun"
and sue the shit out of big tobbacco! (their really is a "big tabbaco" and they really do grease a lot of palms)
but go ahead press on we cant change anything anyway we are all defeated all poor whipped puppies we can only do the last thing the gov lets us do - FORMULATE CONSPIRACY THEORIES!
and let exxon and halliburton take over our poor pathetic selves
oh woe is me
ill just smoke this gun
# posted by : 7:53 PM
: 7:53 PM
We as a nation just want the truth! Living in the DC area, there are cameras everywhere. If you were on the grounds of the Pentagon and tried to spray paint a message on the wall, the security detail would have you on the ground in minutes. Why not release video evidence of the jet slamming into the Pentagon and shut us up!
# posted by : 8:06 PM
: 8:06 PM
that's how the u.s. govt paint people who dont believe that there is an inside job on the 9/11 incident. 'conspiracy theorist'... expert, engineer, scientist... what else the gov't can do to prove that there is no MANIPULATION on the 9/11 incident? for sure the u.s. govt will deny that the 9/11 incident is part of their foriegn policy to advance their interest in other countries. how would you provoke other people?
# posted by : 8:36 PM
: 8:36 PM
For the anonymous post at 4:50 p.m. Penecillin was discovered by dumb luck. Plus I think it is great that everyone who sides with the conspiracists will only post anonymously. And by the way I am only posting anon bc I dont have another way to post.
# posted by : 8:42 PM
: 8:42 PM
I really dont want to stoop myself down by arguing with conspiracy theorists. After all, it's only human nature to jump to conclusions when a tragedy of monumental proportions happens. When the mind honestly believes something, it will hold onto the thought like a hen to her chicks. Our rights of the first amendment are the biggest assests we have for equal human rights. But, it just makes me sad to see people use it on conspiracy theories like this. I dont even know if even one conspiracy theory was proven true in the past 100 years. But that's getting beside the point.
I believe that a conspiracy did happen. It is the fact that 19 people from Middle Eastern countries got together and conspired to hijack airplanes, how to go through with it, then to crash into "key targets" (although some targets couldn't be hit). If that is so hard to deal with because 3000 people died as a result of something so simple as that, then I really feel sorry for you.
I believe that a conspiracy did happen. It is the fact that 19 people from Middle Eastern countries got together and conspired to hijack airplanes, how to go through with it, then to crash into "key targets" (although some targets couldn't be hit). If that is so hard to deal with because 3000 people died as a result of something so simple as that, then I really feel sorry for you.
# posted by : 8:47 PM
: 8:47 PM
Almost all conspiricy theories are based on three presumptions:
1: That the government is successfully keeping a huge, juicy secret about an event.
2: That the government has managed to sway the vast majority of opinion, in professions such as engineering, science, law enforcement, and the military, to agree with the alleged conspiricy, including among non-government people who are intimately acquainted with the event i.e. were actually there.
3: That the government is simultaneously so inept that the "clues" supporting conspiricy theories are easily "discovered".
Obviously, these presumptions contradict each-other. Fortunately for them, those who support these theories are unafflicted by such malodies as truth, logic, or reality.
I contrast this with an actual conspiracy: That Iraq had something to do with 9/11, and that it possesed nuclear weapons. That conspiracy was, as the article mentioned, put forth not because of some quest for the truth, but because those touting it had ulterior motives. Unlike most alleged government conspiracies, this one was entirely debunked by people in the government (Richard A. Clarke, Joseph Wilson, Richard Duelpher etc.) and by those who were in an actual position to know the truth i.e. Hans Blix and the Iraq Survey Group. The usual conspiray theorists never seem to mention this one, though.
1: That the government is successfully keeping a huge, juicy secret about an event.
2: That the government has managed to sway the vast majority of opinion, in professions such as engineering, science, law enforcement, and the military, to agree with the alleged conspiricy, including among non-government people who are intimately acquainted with the event i.e. were actually there.
3: That the government is simultaneously so inept that the "clues" supporting conspiricy theories are easily "discovered".
Obviously, these presumptions contradict each-other. Fortunately for them, those who support these theories are unafflicted by such malodies as truth, logic, or reality.
I contrast this with an actual conspiracy: That Iraq had something to do with 9/11, and that it possesed nuclear weapons. That conspiracy was, as the article mentioned, put forth not because of some quest for the truth, but because those touting it had ulterior motives. Unlike most alleged government conspiracies, this one was entirely debunked by people in the government (Richard A. Clarke, Joseph Wilson, Richard Duelpher etc.) and by those who were in an actual position to know the truth i.e. Hans Blix and the Iraq Survey Group. The usual conspiray theorists never seem to mention this one, though.
# posted by : 9:05 PM
: 9:05 PM
What would conspirators have to gain,purpose ? How many involved in the conspiracy?
It would take many to plan and implement such a disaster as 9/11-no waay this could be kept a secret,as bad as government intities are prone to leaks
It would take many to plan and implement such a disaster as 9/11-no waay this could be kept a secret,as bad as government intities are prone to leaks
# posted by : 9:19 PM
: 9:19 PM
This post is a nonsense circular argument.
The Government needs to be forthcoming. They are not.
The FBI has the Sheraton, Citgo and Department of Transportation tapes of the Pentagon strike. Release them to the public - NOW!!!
We are not the conspiracy theorists,. The Government is the one that declared Osama Bin Laden as the perp within hours of the strike. The Government is the conspiracy theorist.
The people are waking up. Show the Pentagon strike tapes. Quit holding back!
Themate evidence existed in the rubble that was secreted away, held under guard and then shipped to China for recycling. Why should anyone be suspicious?
Shut up eaters! Take your Soma and get back to work - there are terrorists out there. Good eater.
The Government needs to be forthcoming. They are not.
The FBI has the Sheraton, Citgo and Department of Transportation tapes of the Pentagon strike. Release them to the public - NOW!!!
We are not the conspiracy theorists,. The Government is the one that declared Osama Bin Laden as the perp within hours of the strike. The Government is the conspiracy theorist.
The people are waking up. Show the Pentagon strike tapes. Quit holding back!
Themate evidence existed in the rubble that was secreted away, held under guard and then shipped to China for recycling. Why should anyone be suspicious?
Shut up eaters! Take your Soma and get back to work - there are terrorists out there. Good eater.
# posted by : 9:27 PM
: 9:27 PM
what would be gained by blowing up the towers? How about a money making war? How about control of the drug trade in Afganistan? How about eventual control of all oil by a very few people.Iraq and Venezuela are next. So our government is beyond coruption?
How about the federal reserve, that's there for us right?
Paying taxes that's for us right? uh, have you seen that law? Either you don't know our history or don't care.
Keep drinking the Koolaid, and keep marching...
How about the federal reserve, that's there for us right?
Paying taxes that's for us right? uh, have you seen that law? Either you don't know our history or don't care.
Keep drinking the Koolaid, and keep marching...
# posted by : 9:57 PM
: 9:57 PM
I am puzzled by the term "911 deniers" as none of these people or theories I know of denied that it happened, or that thousands of innocent people were killed, or even necessarily that Al Qaeda terrorists committed the act. What most of the conspiracy theories I am aware of do posit, is that the Bush administration was aware of the plot and did nothing about it. Now, although I am politically probably very different than you are, I tend to agree with the points about demolition etc. as the only explanation, as I think the analysis based ont he internal structure of the tower and the heat of the explosion following a almost fully fueled jumbo jet impact was sufficient to bring down the tower, is probably valid. An additional mechanism hardly seems necessary, nor is it really a key point in the "conspiracy theory"- almost an unecessary add-on. Like you, I suspect many of the allegations and connections of the "conspiracy theorists" are a bit flimsy, and I always tend to credit the incompetence of politicians rather than their corrupt evil geniusness (as most don't seem to very bright- the only one in the Bush administration who seems that bright is Rove maybe Rice although she seems to undermine that assumption frequently).However, one thing of which I am certain is that the Bush administration lost no time in using the events to push an agenda that was preplanned (and written about in Policy journals) long before the events of the day. That they don't seem to have effectively made Al Qaeda or terrorism the goal of their post 911 policy, and that they have lied and distorted information to the American people on regular basis. Thus 911 was convenient if not created by them. That is a valid basis for a certain amount of suspicion, even if some of the excesses of the theorists are poorly supported by evidence. One does not have to deny the reality of danger of terrorism in the world to ask the question- what is the current administration doing about, and is that the best approach? is it in the service of the people of the United States and the rest of the world or not? Could venal self interest have undermined a more efective, honest or logical response?
# posted by : 9:58 PM
: 9:58 PM
what would be gained by blowing up the towers? How about a money making war? How about control of the drug trade in Afganistan? How about eventual control of all oil by a very few people.Iraq and Venezuela are next. So our government is beyond coruption?
How about the federal reserve, that's there for us right?
Paying taxes that's for us right? uh, have you seen that law? Either you don't know our history or don't care.
Keep drinking the Koolaid, and keep marching...
How about the federal reserve, that's there for us right?
Paying taxes that's for us right? uh, have you seen that law? Either you don't know our history or don't care.
Keep drinking the Koolaid, and keep marching...
# posted by : 9:59 PM
: 9:59 PM
I like many do NOT wish to believe that OUR gov't had something to do with this. That being said, I also do not suggest that they didn't have anything to do with the episodes that happend that day or the weeks and months leading up to it.
Mark Twain once said, "support your country always, support your gov't when it deserves it."
Being "patriotic" does NOT mean shuting up and not questioning your gov't's decsions or their responses or the lack there of.
We may never get any answers to questions that have to this day gone unanswered by OUR gov't...that doesn't mean we should stop trying to get those answers. After all, WE THE PEOPLE of this country deserve that from OUR gov't.
Mark Twain once said, "support your country always, support your gov't when it deserves it."
Being "patriotic" does NOT mean shuting up and not questioning your gov't's decsions or their responses or the lack there of.
We may never get any answers to questions that have to this day gone unanswered by OUR gov't...that doesn't mean we should stop trying to get those answers. After all, WE THE PEOPLE of this country deserve that from OUR gov't.
# posted by : 10:10 PM
: 10:10 PM
Let's see. We arefisning out thatthere were wire-taps Before 9/11. They (we) were wabred 52 times in a dossier marked bin laden to attack US wuith planes. The Atorney Genral started takingnon commercial flights after he heard this. Comnspiracy?? YES DAMMIT. Furthermore the VP just happened to be in charge of maneuvers the day . And theybased their intelligence on Saddam ona torture victim (torture by the CIA) and Oh yea watch FRONTLINE's take on this. AND further IF FRONTLINE was wrong they would getsued.HAsn't happened yet
# posted by : 10:21 PM
: 10:21 PM
No one wants a corrupt government, that is insane, all we want are truthful answers to our questions and if the government can't answer them then we, the people, will seek them out. This country is full of intelligent people who have valid questions to ask and you are blind if you can't see the holes in the government's story of what happened on that day. It's not about pointing a finger its about finding the truth and that my friend is the American way.
# posted by : 10:37 PM
: 10:37 PM
ok poor whipped puppies who obsess on conspiracies
what about maybe obsessing on the RESULTS of 9/11?
instead of the causes?
in my industry (airline) we have seen huge gov bailouts have had our pensions taken away our pay cut and 50% of the maintence of us aircraft moved to foreign countries
so much safer!
bush wants to outsource our ports too!
(see bush not enforcing inspection of foreign repair stations)
besides illegall immigrants doing former citizens jobs
all on the excuse of 9/11
now we are focusing on the automotive industry ford is wanting to give away 100,000 jobs
when do you wake up from your conspiracy theories?
its attacking you right now!
it aint no theory
why would WORKING americans vote republican?
when do you realize that ordinary WORKING americans are a "special intertest" group?
do you all make your income from investments in the stock market?
who cares what REALLY happened on 9/11?
just care what happened BECAUSE of 9/11
when a politician or a radio talk show host says "its economic its out of control by our government"
be very afraid
because you do have control
i know you beleive you are a whipped puppy
but lets at least try VOTE
YOU are a SPECIAL INTEREST!
VOTE EM ALL OUT
CANS & CRATS
FIGHT THE RESULTS OF 9/11!!!!
/
what about maybe obsessing on the RESULTS of 9/11?
instead of the causes?
in my industry (airline) we have seen huge gov bailouts have had our pensions taken away our pay cut and 50% of the maintence of us aircraft moved to foreign countries
so much safer!
bush wants to outsource our ports too!
(see bush not enforcing inspection of foreign repair stations)
besides illegall immigrants doing former citizens jobs
all on the excuse of 9/11
now we are focusing on the automotive industry ford is wanting to give away 100,000 jobs
when do you wake up from your conspiracy theories?
its attacking you right now!
it aint no theory
why would WORKING americans vote republican?
when do you realize that ordinary WORKING americans are a "special intertest" group?
do you all make your income from investments in the stock market?
who cares what REALLY happened on 9/11?
just care what happened BECAUSE of 9/11
when a politician or a radio talk show host says "its economic its out of control by our government"
be very afraid
because you do have control
i know you beleive you are a whipped puppy
but lets at least try VOTE
YOU are a SPECIAL INTEREST!
VOTE EM ALL OUT
CANS & CRATS
FIGHT THE RESULTS OF 9/11!!!!
/
# posted by : 10:44 PM
: 10:44 PM
look,
who did it doesn't matter. the real truth is that our way of life is causing pain and suffering around the world. While our government is taking away our right to stop this real terror, we have yet to accept and deal with this real truth.
who did it doesn't matter. the real truth is that our way of life is causing pain and suffering around the world. While our government is taking away our right to stop this real terror, we have yet to accept and deal with this real truth.
# posted by : 11:21 PM
: 11:21 PM
If the government has the ability to cover up 9/11; don't you think they could have easily "put" WMD in Iraq to satisify the world? Just a thought for the conspiracy theorists!
# posted by : 11:28 PM
: 11:28 PM
9/11 deniers are so fucking stupid. how can anyone be so ignorant. these people don't use evidence or logic, they just want to believe that 9/11 is bullshit and the government is involved. like the article said, most deniers are non-white, DEMOCRATS, young adults, people who life is the computer or ones with no college education. I'm sorry but you people have something seriously wrong with you
-marcus
-marcus
# posted by : 11:31 PM
: 11:31 PM
Three buildings fell. The twin towers and Building 7. Anyone know why building 7 fell?
# posted by : 11:36 PM
: 11:36 PM
On September 11, 2001, 3 buildings fell in the exact same manner. 2 were hit by planes and the ensuing fires caused by jet fuel, but building 7 just had a small fire burning in it. Also, this is the first time that buildings have fallen in this manner, ever. And, all three came down on the same day. If our government had more of a record of telling us the truth, we would be more likely to believe them.
# posted by : 11:38 PM
: 11:38 PM
You conspiracy people are morons. Do any of you REALLY believe this, or are you just trying to be cute with your little "gadfly" game. I especially like the idiot who blamse TRUMAN for Pearl Harbor!!!
# posted by : 11:40 PM
: 11:40 PM
The conspiracy theorists are the same folks who now believe in the complete reversal of cleverness in their belief in an incompetent government handling of the war on terror. You cant have it both ways. Building 7 collapse is dismissed by "anonymous" who is quoted as an expert reviewer of the National Institute of Standards analysis of what happened. What rubbish in his redlined comments. Quoting them as doctrine is intellectually and morally disengenuous and yet every conspiracy site points to this inane review as the smoking gun. There is a picture mid report showing the 7 building clearly scorched and burning. ( OBVIOUSLY its been on fire for awhile BUT this doesnt fit with his biased diatribe) . SO the "expert anonymous" theorizes that the fires couldnt have been that severe so the smoke MUST be the cloud from the collapsing Twin Towers. Unfortunately the towers collapsed in a rush of white and gray dust as we saw and all the survivors were covered in.
The picture is of a fully engaged fire and acrid black smoke which ultimately weakened the support columns resulting in the collapse. Ignornace is bliss and misinformed and uneducated "experts" are treacherous. The scariest part of all of this is that a democracy needs an educated and "informed " citizenry to florish. Shame on those who bring dishonor to the dead and to our nation.
The picture is of a fully engaged fire and acrid black smoke which ultimately weakened the support columns resulting in the collapse. Ignornace is bliss and misinformed and uneducated "experts" are treacherous. The scariest part of all of this is that a democracy needs an educated and "informed " citizenry to florish. Shame on those who bring dishonor to the dead and to our nation.
# posted by : 11:46 PM
: 11:46 PM
"Yes it sure was an interesting day",
FGWB about 9/11. Seig Heil or moron, it is your choice. Even a republican can connect skull and cross bones, Project for a New American Century, Dicky's Halliburton payroll, Samuel Bush gr. gr. father WWI war profiteer merchant of death, Gr father Prescott UBC bank Hilter Angel, CIA Carlyle Sr. Bush spawn with GW's appearing to be a moron on 9/11. You are the denier apparent friend of the anti-Christ(s) in our white house. The only reason for anybody to believe Bush is as stupid as he appears is another war profiteering, monger, neo-con. http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/essay.jsp?article=essayaninterestingday
The court’s have said he broke the law with his torture prison camps and he has broken the law by spying on us. Do you want to join him in jail where he belongs along with others that are guilty of crimes against humanity and dereliction of duty to the point of treason?
A patriot would want to live in a nation that is humane, has leaders that obey signed treaties which are the law of the land. A true patriot would not agree to the making of the constitution void. I am a Patriot.
Ken Driessen
FGWB about 9/11. Seig Heil or moron, it is your choice. Even a republican can connect skull and cross bones, Project for a New American Century, Dicky's Halliburton payroll, Samuel Bush gr. gr. father WWI war profiteer merchant of death, Gr father Prescott UBC bank Hilter Angel, CIA Carlyle Sr. Bush spawn with GW's appearing to be a moron on 9/11. You are the denier apparent friend of the anti-Christ(s) in our white house. The only reason for anybody to believe Bush is as stupid as he appears is another war profiteering, monger, neo-con. http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/essay.jsp?article=essayaninterestingday
The court’s have said he broke the law with his torture prison camps and he has broken the law by spying on us. Do you want to join him in jail where he belongs along with others that are guilty of crimes against humanity and dereliction of duty to the point of treason?
A patriot would want to live in a nation that is humane, has leaders that obey signed treaties which are the law of the land. A true patriot would not agree to the making of the constitution void. I am a Patriot.
Ken Driessen
# posted by : 11:48 PM
: 11:48 PM
I've seen LOOSE CHANGE and I've heard the government's story. I think there are holes in both versions.
Have you EVER seen the mainstream media come out and say "hey, we got this story wrong–-here's what really happened." I haven't. Ever.
No argument, this is one incompetent administration. But don't forget how arrogant they are--they didn't feel a need to plant any WMDs.
Some points in the conspiracy theory have my attention––how about you? Like why was WTC cleaned up so quickly and thoroughly once they knew no one was alive? There are still hundreds of people unaccounted for--did they have to ship that steel to CHINA so quickly? If it was handled as a CRIME SCENE, maybe some of us could believe more of what the government was saying?
I just have to wonder how it might have gone down if either the mayor of NYC or the governor of NY were not both Republicans? A two-party system, when it works, leads to some healthy skepticism. You don't want a government of "one mind"--it can only cause trouble.
The absence of skepticism among the mainstream media is why we have conspiracy theories.
JFK? I think it was a mafia hit job, in anger for Kennedy's investigations of the mob--especially after they rigged the Chicago vote to go for Kennedy in 1960. The government did not say so at the time for fear of people taking revenge on Italian-Americans. Sound plausible?
So a similar "behind the scenes" scenario may some day come to light on 9/11. Hard to say right now, because this administration is a pack of self-serving liars, more so than most.
I encourage both sides to come up with more facts and evidence.
PS: Hey, ALL CAPS GUY. DO YOU REALIZE HOW HARD IT IS TO READ ALL CAPS?
Have you EVER seen the mainstream media come out and say "hey, we got this story wrong–-here's what really happened." I haven't. Ever.
No argument, this is one incompetent administration. But don't forget how arrogant they are--they didn't feel a need to plant any WMDs.
Some points in the conspiracy theory have my attention––how about you? Like why was WTC cleaned up so quickly and thoroughly once they knew no one was alive? There are still hundreds of people unaccounted for--did they have to ship that steel to CHINA so quickly? If it was handled as a CRIME SCENE, maybe some of us could believe more of what the government was saying?
I just have to wonder how it might have gone down if either the mayor of NYC or the governor of NY were not both Republicans? A two-party system, when it works, leads to some healthy skepticism. You don't want a government of "one mind"--it can only cause trouble.
The absence of skepticism among the mainstream media is why we have conspiracy theories.
JFK? I think it was a mafia hit job, in anger for Kennedy's investigations of the mob--especially after they rigged the Chicago vote to go for Kennedy in 1960. The government did not say so at the time for fear of people taking revenge on Italian-Americans. Sound plausible?
So a similar "behind the scenes" scenario may some day come to light on 9/11. Hard to say right now, because this administration is a pack of self-serving liars, more so than most.
I encourage both sides to come up with more facts and evidence.
PS: Hey, ALL CAPS GUY. DO YOU REALIZE HOW HARD IT IS TO READ ALL CAPS?
You conspiracy theorists are the one's screwing up the country! Get a life nut jobs!
# posted by : 11:56 PM
: 11:56 PM
The writer at 12:31 AM that begins with 9-11 deniers" shows where the problems in this country really lie. Great post trailer trash. A really intelligent comment.
I don't believe the government staged 9/11. I think the intelligence groups within the government were unable, through distrust of one another, to put the pieces together. I have a serious problem, however with the way the towers collapsed. An earlier poster discussed "internal trusses." The building had no internal trusses. The extoskeleton was the support for the entire structure. The only interior beams were surrounding the elevator shafts and were incapable of lending any integrity to the building. Two side of each building were severely damaged on impact. I find it amazing thatthe building held up. Use logic to visualize the weakening of the external support by heat. No matter how you picture it, the damaged corner should have been the frist part to drop. Use the brains you think you have. Try it with blocks. Build a stack with one level made of dominoes. Remove two of them from one corner. It will collapse in the direction of the dominoes you removed. It will not go straight down.
Why did Building 7 go down?
Why is there no debris field or wing impact at the Pentagon?
Why is the debris field in Pennsylvania 8 miles long from a ground impact?
I lived through the Kennedy assassination. Nobody ever asks the right question. Why was Oswald set up to kill Kennedy in a place he wasn't supposed to be?
I find it inconceivable that our government "set up" 9/11. I don't think they have that level of competence. I guess that proves the author wrong in his all encompassing statement.
I don't believe the government staged 9/11. I think the intelligence groups within the government were unable, through distrust of one another, to put the pieces together. I have a serious problem, however with the way the towers collapsed. An earlier poster discussed "internal trusses." The building had no internal trusses. The extoskeleton was the support for the entire structure. The only interior beams were surrounding the elevator shafts and were incapable of lending any integrity to the building. Two side of each building were severely damaged on impact. I find it amazing thatthe building held up. Use logic to visualize the weakening of the external support by heat. No matter how you picture it, the damaged corner should have been the frist part to drop. Use the brains you think you have. Try it with blocks. Build a stack with one level made of dominoes. Remove two of them from one corner. It will collapse in the direction of the dominoes you removed. It will not go straight down.
Why did Building 7 go down?
Why is there no debris field or wing impact at the Pentagon?
Why is the debris field in Pennsylvania 8 miles long from a ground impact?
I lived through the Kennedy assassination. Nobody ever asks the right question. Why was Oswald set up to kill Kennedy in a place he wasn't supposed to be?
I find it inconceivable that our government "set up" 9/11. I don't think they have that level of competence. I guess that proves the author wrong in his all encompassing statement.
# posted by : 12:03 AM
: 12:03 AM
how those towers fell is bull......that is imposible but yet so many people believe it....what a joke
# posted by : 12:22 AM
: 12:22 AM
i'm no structural engineer so will leave the towers falling to those who know more about that type of thing all i will ask is...where did the airplanes go from shanksville and the pentagon ? how come the last we heard of the anthrax scare was that it ws found to be US military grade chemicals , not a single word has been said about that since
# posted by : 12:35 AM
: 12:35 AM
oh and the oddest part of the whole "official " story is that they found hijackers passports at these crash sites , bone and jet engines were burnt to a crisp yet paper passports survives intact , that was almost laughable ...almost
# posted by : 12:40 AM
: 12:40 AM
Our government told us that building 7 fell because it was struck by debris.
Larry Silverstein, owner of the WTC buildings, admits that WTC building 7 was pulled.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6455428412411043437&q=building+7
Larry Silverstein, owner of the WTC buildings, admits that WTC building 7 was pulled.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6455428412411043437&q=building+7
# posted by : 12:41 AM
: 12:41 AM
Wow, I just finished reading all of this and I only have a few things to say.
To the Feds: Release the confiscated tapes of the 757 hitting the Pentagon and clear that up. Also, explain the mysterious 8-second collapse of WTC 7, which was not hit by a plane. And lastly, where was our vaunted air defense during this whole thing? If it was simple incompetence by the FAA, NORAD, the Air Force, or some other govbots, then roll some heads.
To those that believe the Official 9/11 Story: Watch the video of WTC 7 collapse, and ask yourself why FEMA, NIST and the 9/11 Commission have never satisfactorily explained what happened. And while you’re at it, start pressing the Feds for the release of the missing video from the Pentagon, just to prove us paranoid nutcases wrong.
To the conspiracy theorists: Let’s not appear to be paranoid wackos (again!). Not everything about 9/11 has to be questioned right now. Let’s start with exposing the WTC 7 collapse to the public, which has been the most under-reported part of 9/11, and work our way out from there.
To the Feds: Release the confiscated tapes of the 757 hitting the Pentagon and clear that up. Also, explain the mysterious 8-second collapse of WTC 7, which was not hit by a plane. And lastly, where was our vaunted air defense during this whole thing? If it was simple incompetence by the FAA, NORAD, the Air Force, or some other govbots, then roll some heads.
To those that believe the Official 9/11 Story: Watch the video of WTC 7 collapse, and ask yourself why FEMA, NIST and the 9/11 Commission have never satisfactorily explained what happened. And while you’re at it, start pressing the Feds for the release of the missing video from the Pentagon, just to prove us paranoid nutcases wrong.
To the conspiracy theorists: Let’s not appear to be paranoid wackos (again!). Not everything about 9/11 has to be questioned right now. Let’s start with exposing the WTC 7 collapse to the public, which has been the most under-reported part of 9/11, and work our way out from there.
# posted by : 12:50 AM
: 12:50 AM
i have a few things to say first i think that they (bush and the govt) knew at least a little bit of what was going to happen but bush is stupid and took no real precautions. secondly if he let the attack happen to use war to stimulate growth in a stagnating economy (previous comment) then why is he bankrupting the country with his dumb assed war. third there is plenty of solid fact pointing out that the govt knew something but none that they did it or that it was an inside job . and fourthly if it was just a ploy to declare war why did the REAL EXISTING terrorists take credit and why would he blow the center of the countrys economy (because thats pretty much what the twin towers were) and his own ultra high security etc... military headquartere (the pentagon for you dimwits who still think its an inside job)
# posted by : 1:00 AM
: 1:00 AM
more info it could have been explosives if you think about it the "REAL LIVING CREDIT TAKING TERRORISTS" could have planted bombs before the planes hit as a backup plan incase the planes didnt work (osama and saddam were smart enough) but i dont think they did. also as for the burning fuel not damaging steel supports sure but ill bet you a million bucks the a 747 jet could damage them . also also according to engineering experts the design of the twin towers is what caused them to collapse (or thats what the news report i saw said) because of way the buildings were designed any major structural breach (hole in the wall) could collapse the whole damn thing and some guy mentioned another building nearby collapsing from fires caused by "falling debris" etc well falling debris from 200 or whatever stories up could destroy a building in itself plus the earthquake sized tremors caused by 200 or whatever story tall buildings collapsing could take a couple buildings out too.... *note i can never remember how tall the towers are*
# posted by : 1:10 AM
: 1:10 AM
Incredible!! We have been attacked by fanatics who avidly proclaim that they are at war with us, glorify the ways that they have attacked us all over the world (many times), and preach that they have definite goals, which include:
1. Expulsion of all non-Muslims from Muslim lands.
2. Expulsion of all Jews from Israel and elimination of that state.
3. Reclaiming of all Muslim "sanctified" ground, which extends into France and includes Spain.
4. Conversion of all people to their version of the Muslim faith EVERYWHERE!
They say they are in no hurry, that they are in a jihad which has no time table, that anyone who disagrees, even other Muslims, deserve to die and that it is a guarantee to Heaven to die in this cause.
Most of the leaders of Muslim radical sects have said these things. Many leaders of Muslim states have said the same in Arabic or Farsi, even after saying "nice" things to us in English or French or ...
None of this is debatable. You may argue that hey don't mean it or some such nonsense, but war has been declared on us by many people for many years and attacks have occured in many places, most visibly on 9/11.
In the middle of this, we sit and debate stupid, meaningless conspiracy theories, who lied about what, and why we haven't wrapped the conflict up like a TV program in 30 minutes or an hour.
Maybe we should bring the troops home and wait. We will surely, at some point have the same troops on our street corners fighting the same people. We will have martial law.
That might be a good thing if we finally elect those people who many think understand our incredible level of ignorance and know how to take care of us.
So blather on about politics, conspiracies, and WMDs.
There are a lot of people out there who want to kill you for saying what is on your mind. Say it while you can. Just remember, they read this stuff, too. Maybe they will thank you before they shoot you.
1. Expulsion of all non-Muslims from Muslim lands.
2. Expulsion of all Jews from Israel and elimination of that state.
3. Reclaiming of all Muslim "sanctified" ground, which extends into France and includes Spain.
4. Conversion of all people to their version of the Muslim faith EVERYWHERE!
They say they are in no hurry, that they are in a jihad which has no time table, that anyone who disagrees, even other Muslims, deserve to die and that it is a guarantee to Heaven to die in this cause.
Most of the leaders of Muslim radical sects have said these things. Many leaders of Muslim states have said the same in Arabic or Farsi, even after saying "nice" things to us in English or French or ...
None of this is debatable. You may argue that hey don't mean it or some such nonsense, but war has been declared on us by many people for many years and attacks have occured in many places, most visibly on 9/11.
In the middle of this, we sit and debate stupid, meaningless conspiracy theories, who lied about what, and why we haven't wrapped the conflict up like a TV program in 30 minutes or an hour.
Maybe we should bring the troops home and wait. We will surely, at some point have the same troops on our street corners fighting the same people. We will have martial law.
That might be a good thing if we finally elect those people who many think understand our incredible level of ignorance and know how to take care of us.
So blather on about politics, conspiracies, and WMDs.
There are a lot of people out there who want to kill you for saying what is on your mind. Say it while you can. Just remember, they read this stuff, too. Maybe they will thank you before they shoot you.
# posted by : 1:48 AM
: 1:48 AM
Incredible!! We have been attacked by fanatics who avidly proclaim that they are at war with us, glorify the ways that they have attacked us all over the world (many times), and preach that they have definite goals, which include:
1. Expulsion of all non-Muslims from Muslim lands.
2. Expulsion of all Jews from Israel and elimination of that state.
3. Reclaiming of all Muslim "sanctified" ground, which extends into France and includes Spain.
4. Conversion of all people to their version of the Muslim faith EVERYWHERE!
They say they are in no hurry, that they are in a jihad which has no time table, that anyone who disagrees, even other Muslims, deserve to die and that it is a guarantee to Heaven to die in this cause.
Most of the leaders of Muslim radical sects have said these things. Many leaders of Muslim states have said the same in Arabic or Farsi, even after saying "nice" things to us in English or French or ...
None of this is debatable. You may argue that hey don't mean it or some such nonsense, but war has been declared on us by many people for many years and attacks have occured in many places, most visibly on 9/11.
In the middle of this, we sit and debate stupid, meaningless conspiracy theories, who lied about what, and why we haven't wrapped the conflict up like a TV program in 30 minutes or an hour.
Maybe we should bring the troops home and wait. We will surely, at some point have the same troops on our street corners fighting the same people. We will have martial law.
That might be a good thing if we finally elect those people who many think understand our incredible level of ignorance and know how to take care of us.
So blather on about politics, conspiracies, and WMDs.
There are a lot of people out there who want to kill you for saying what is on your mind. Say it while you can. Just remember, they read this stuff, too. Maybe they will thank you before they shoot you.
1. Expulsion of all non-Muslims from Muslim lands.
2. Expulsion of all Jews from Israel and elimination of that state.
3. Reclaiming of all Muslim "sanctified" ground, which extends into France and includes Spain.
4. Conversion of all people to their version of the Muslim faith EVERYWHERE!
They say they are in no hurry, that they are in a jihad which has no time table, that anyone who disagrees, even other Muslims, deserve to die and that it is a guarantee to Heaven to die in this cause.
Most of the leaders of Muslim radical sects have said these things. Many leaders of Muslim states have said the same in Arabic or Farsi, even after saying "nice" things to us in English or French or ...
None of this is debatable. You may argue that hey don't mean it or some such nonsense, but war has been declared on us by many people for many years and attacks have occured in many places, most visibly on 9/11.
In the middle of this, we sit and debate stupid, meaningless conspiracy theories, who lied about what, and why we haven't wrapped the conflict up like a TV program in 30 minutes or an hour.
Maybe we should bring the troops home and wait. We will surely, at some point have the same troops on our street corners fighting the same people. We will have martial law.
That might be a good thing if we finally elect those people who many think understand our incredible level of ignorance and know how to take care of us.
So blather on about politics, conspiracies, and WMDs.
There are a lot of people out there who want to kill you for saying what is on your mind. Say it while you can. Just remember, they read this stuff, too. Maybe they will thank you before they shoot you.
# posted by : 1:48 AM
: 1:48 AM
Incredible!! We have been attacked by fanatics who avidly proclaim that they are at war with us, glorify the ways that they have attacked us all over the world (many times), and preach that they have definite goals, which include:
1. Expulsion of all non-Muslims from Muslim lands.
2. Expulsion of all Jews from Israel and elimination of that state.
3. Reclaiming of all Muslim "sanctified" ground, which extends into France and includes Spain.
4. Conversion of all people to their version of the Muslim faith EVERYWHERE!
They say they are in no hurry, that they are in a jihad which has no time table, that anyone who disagrees, even other Muslims, deserve to die and that it is a guarantee to Heaven to die in this cause.
Most of the leaders of Muslim radical sects have said these things. Many leaders of Muslim states have said the same in Arabic or Farsi, even after saying "nice" things to us in English or French or ...
None of this is debatable. You may argue that hey don't mean it or some such nonsense, but war has been declared on us by many people for many years and attacks have occured in many places, most visibly on 9/11.
In the middle of this, we sit and debate stupid, meaningless conspiracy theories, who lied about what, and why we haven't wrapped the conflict up like a TV program in 30 minutes or an hour.
Mybe we should bring the troops home and wait. We will surely, at some point have the same troops on our street corners fighting the same people. We will have martial law.
That might be a good thing if we finally elect those people who many think understand our incredible level of ignorance and know how to take care of us.
So blather on about politics, conspiracies, and WMDs.
There are a lot of people out there who want to kill you for saying what is on your mind. Say it while you can. Just remember, they read this stuff, too. Maybe they will thank you before they shoot you.
1. Expulsion of all non-Muslims from Muslim lands.
2. Expulsion of all Jews from Israel and elimination of that state.
3. Reclaiming of all Muslim "sanctified" ground, which extends into France and includes Spain.
4. Conversion of all people to their version of the Muslim faith EVERYWHERE!
They say they are in no hurry, that they are in a jihad which has no time table, that anyone who disagrees, even other Muslims, deserve to die and that it is a guarantee to Heaven to die in this cause.
Most of the leaders of Muslim radical sects have said these things. Many leaders of Muslim states have said the same in Arabic or Farsi, even after saying "nice" things to us in English or French or ...
None of this is debatable. You may argue that hey don't mean it or some such nonsense, but war has been declared on us by many people for many years and attacks have occured in many places, most visibly on 9/11.
In the middle of this, we sit and debate stupid, meaningless conspiracy theories, who lied about what, and why we haven't wrapped the conflict up like a TV program in 30 minutes or an hour.
Mybe we should bring the troops home and wait. We will surely, at some point have the same troops on our street corners fighting the same people. We will have martial law.
That might be a good thing if we finally elect those people who many think understand our incredible level of ignorance and know how to take care of us.
So blather on about politics, conspiracies, and WMDs.
There are a lot of people out there who want to kill you for saying what is on your mind. Say it while you can. Just remember, they read this stuff, too. Maybe they will thank you before they shoot you.
# posted by : 1:48 AM
: 1:48 AM
I'm not going to argue over facts. All I have to say is that the fact(no pun) that there are so many doubts as to the actual happenings on 9/11 should be clear enough evidence that if it was a terrorist attack, the government hasn't done a proper job of convincing us beyond a reasonable doubt. This coupled with the many other questionable decisions reflects poorly on the administration.
# posted by : 2:35 AM
: 2:35 AM
The article has an intriguing name, but the content here is biased. The scientific facts aren't that scientific in the article, and survey conclusions (like lack of consistency among conspiracy folks once the questions become more direct) are just weak (those folks question the two that are mentioned, but give them another theory and they might give their full 40%+).
Solidly said: it's not that folks believe in any particular theory, it's just that they don't trust their government.
Solidly said: it's not that folks believe in any particular theory, it's just that they don't trust their government.
# posted by : 3:03 AM
: 3:03 AM
What's amazing to me is that some people need to believe that the US government was *directly* involved in the conspiracy of September 11th in order to hold the US governent responsible for those events.
The man who the US government officially names as the head of the conspiracy - Osama Bin Laden - was directly on the US/CIA payroll in the 1980's when he was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. There is also a famous photo of Rumsfield shaking Saddam Hussein's hand dating from the 80'a when S.H. was receiving massive support from the US for his war against Iran.
It should be obvious even from the official story that the US government is complicit in these events - we're creating and funding our own enemies. Whether there was *direct* US government involvement in the conspiracy or not seems a bit of a quibble over a minor detail.
The man who the US government officially names as the head of the conspiracy - Osama Bin Laden - was directly on the US/CIA payroll in the 1980's when he was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. There is also a famous photo of Rumsfield shaking Saddam Hussein's hand dating from the 80'a when S.H. was receiving massive support from the US for his war against Iran.
It should be obvious even from the official story that the US government is complicit in these events - we're creating and funding our own enemies. Whether there was *direct* US government involvement in the conspiracy or not seems a bit of a quibble over a minor detail.
# posted by : 3:38 AM
: 3:38 AM
This article has to be believed. The conspiracy theory is in lack of solid arguments. It is very easy to prove this on some solid mind basis:
- some materials (steel ropes, jets, etc.) that can be used as evidence in court have evaporated;
- most evidence comes from occasional witnesses – firemen and people passing by. They have no systemic education in this exactly field of knowledge (conspiracy, covert actions, acts of sabotage);
- all the arguments in favour of this theory come from nonprofessionals with no conspiracy training and knowledge too;
- there is no videotaped rocket or unmanned aircraft hitting the Pentagon;
- freefall of buildings cannot be used as evidence, e.g. in court;
- scientific or nonscientific simulations are never a matter of evidence as they are no more than actions that just pretend to resemble real phenomena;
- there are very many laws and principles in physics but it is still to be proved that they apply exactly to this particular case;
- belief and disbelief(in institutions, governmental bodies, etc.) are not scientifically reasonable and are arguments related to and applicable to religion and social engineering mainly;
- profits often quoted are not always signs of evil;
- social phenomena (wars, corrections to some legislative texts) that follow some phenomena (fires, devastations, etc.) are rarely their results.
Elementary, new Watsons!
- some materials (steel ropes, jets, etc.) that can be used as evidence in court have evaporated;
- most evidence comes from occasional witnesses – firemen and people passing by. They have no systemic education in this exactly field of knowledge (conspiracy, covert actions, acts of sabotage);
- all the arguments in favour of this theory come from nonprofessionals with no conspiracy training and knowledge too;
- there is no videotaped rocket or unmanned aircraft hitting the Pentagon;
- freefall of buildings cannot be used as evidence, e.g. in court;
- scientific or nonscientific simulations are never a matter of evidence as they are no more than actions that just pretend to resemble real phenomena;
- there are very many laws and principles in physics but it is still to be proved that they apply exactly to this particular case;
- belief and disbelief(in institutions, governmental bodies, etc.) are not scientifically reasonable and are arguments related to and applicable to religion and social engineering mainly;
- profits often quoted are not always signs of evil;
- social phenomena (wars, corrections to some legislative texts) that follow some phenomena (fires, devastations, etc.) are rarely their results.
Elementary, new Watsons!
# posted by : 4:50 AM
: 4:50 AM
This article has to be believed. The conspiracy theory is in lack of solid arguments. It is very easy to prove this on some solid mind basis:
- some materials (steel ropes, jets, etc.) that can be used as evidence in court have evaporated;
- most evidence comes from occasional witnesses – firemen and people passing by. They have no systemic education in this exactly field of knowledge (conspiracy, covert actions, acts of sabotage);
- all the arguments in favour of this theory come from nonprofessionals with no conspiracy training and knowledge too;
- there is no videotaped rocket or unmanned aircraft hitting the Pentagon;
- freefall of buildings cannot be used as evidence, e.g. in court;
- scientific or nonscientific simulations are never a matter of evidence as they are no more than actions that just pretend to resemble real phenomena;
- there are very many laws and principles in physics but it is still to be proved that they apply exactly to this particular case;
- belief and disbelief(in institutions, governmental bodies, etc.) are not scientifically reasonable and are arguments related to and applicable to religion and social engineering mainly;
- profits often quoted are not always signs of evil;
- social phenomena (wars, corrections to some legislative texts) that follow some phenomena (fires, devastations, etc.) are rarely their results.
Elementary, new Watsons!
- some materials (steel ropes, jets, etc.) that can be used as evidence in court have evaporated;
- most evidence comes from occasional witnesses – firemen and people passing by. They have no systemic education in this exactly field of knowledge (conspiracy, covert actions, acts of sabotage);
- all the arguments in favour of this theory come from nonprofessionals with no conspiracy training and knowledge too;
- there is no videotaped rocket or unmanned aircraft hitting the Pentagon;
- freefall of buildings cannot be used as evidence, e.g. in court;
- scientific or nonscientific simulations are never a matter of evidence as they are no more than actions that just pretend to resemble real phenomena;
- there are very many laws and principles in physics but it is still to be proved that they apply exactly to this particular case;
- belief and disbelief(in institutions, governmental bodies, etc.) are not scientifically reasonable and are arguments related to and applicable to religion and social engineering mainly;
- profits often quoted are not always signs of evil;
- social phenomena (wars, corrections to some legislative texts) that follow some phenomena (fires, devastations, etc.) are rarely their results.
Elementary, new Watsons!
# posted by : 4:51 AM
: 4:51 AM
The US government accused Russia of staging the collapse of residential buildings in Moscow to wage war against Chechnya - this is certainly the proof that they are familiar with that way of thinking....
# posted by : 5:21 AM
: 5:21 AM
I don't think anyone understands how long it will take for us to accept and understand that what happened on that day was real, and that it was an attack.
Believing the government did it to us is more comforting than believing a small group of foreign zealots did it. But the uncomfortable reality is still reality.
I do believe our government was arrogant, blind and stupid because it has been that way for a very long time. And unfortunately it is still arrogant, blind and stupid.
As for Shanksville and "where are the plane parts" -- the plane flew straight into the ground at high speed. They had to dig to recover the black boxes.
Bits of skin and bone still fall from the trees around that field, as the trees grow and the remains become unstuck. This is five years and the skin and bone still falls. The local coroner goes to the field regularly, picks up all the remains he can find, and puts them in a box to be buried at the memorial.
Foreign zealots did this to us. We need to accept it and learn to deal with this in some way that is more effective than what we've done so far, or it will happen again.
Believing the government did it to us is more comforting than believing a small group of foreign zealots did it. But the uncomfortable reality is still reality.
I do believe our government was arrogant, blind and stupid because it has been that way for a very long time. And unfortunately it is still arrogant, blind and stupid.
As for Shanksville and "where are the plane parts" -- the plane flew straight into the ground at high speed. They had to dig to recover the black boxes.
Bits of skin and bone still fall from the trees around that field, as the trees grow and the remains become unstuck. This is five years and the skin and bone still falls. The local coroner goes to the field regularly, picks up all the remains he can find, and puts them in a box to be buried at the memorial.
Foreign zealots did this to us. We need to accept it and learn to deal with this in some way that is more effective than what we've done so far, or it will happen again.
# posted by : 5:57 AM
: 5:57 AM
I'm disappointed. The article doesn't really tell us anything new, does it?. Let's face it, there are many things about 9/11 which have not been adequately answered, some of which are discussed (at length) in this forum, but clearly many which have not.
This is where the view is clouded by lies, deception, untruth and half truths and for what purpose? To save us from ourselves? People these days are naturally suspicious when a minor detail remains unexplained in the midst of the bigger examination of the event.
Whether this has to do with a distrust of government or a greater awareness of how things work I don't know, but it's there and it has to be dealt with - it's the itch that must be scratched.
Such as - where did all the people go?. Some 2700 people sadly died - but when I saw those towers alight the first thing I said to my colleagues was "There are 55,000 people in there". It's a miracle therefore that less than 5% of the possible death toll actually occurred. Explain in less than 500 words..
I have to advise that I am looking at this from a non-US perspective. Those of you out there who are intelligent and thoughtful will of course have taken their view from every possible vantage point in order to form a well rounded argument, considering views and opinion both from within and without the US, and where this has happened it does come across brightly. Unfortunately there are still some who prefer to take a narrow viewpoint and this has the problematic effect of presuming that the rest of the world neither cares nor matters. Not true. We do, passionately.
My plea is therefore not to accidentally exclude us from a very important topic which concerns us all. We ALL need the truth because the future of the world depends on it.
This is where the view is clouded by lies, deception, untruth and half truths and for what purpose? To save us from ourselves? People these days are naturally suspicious when a minor detail remains unexplained in the midst of the bigger examination of the event.
Whether this has to do with a distrust of government or a greater awareness of how things work I don't know, but it's there and it has to be dealt with - it's the itch that must be scratched.
Such as - where did all the people go?. Some 2700 people sadly died - but when I saw those towers alight the first thing I said to my colleagues was "There are 55,000 people in there". It's a miracle therefore that less than 5% of the possible death toll actually occurred. Explain in less than 500 words..
I have to advise that I am looking at this from a non-US perspective. Those of you out there who are intelligent and thoughtful will of course have taken their view from every possible vantage point in order to form a well rounded argument, considering views and opinion both from within and without the US, and where this has happened it does come across brightly. Unfortunately there are still some who prefer to take a narrow viewpoint and this has the problematic effect of presuming that the rest of the world neither cares nor matters. Not true. We do, passionately.
My plea is therefore not to accidentally exclude us from a very important topic which concerns us all. We ALL need the truth because the future of the world depends on it.
# posted by : 6:07 AM
: 6:07 AM
My main concern is how they will not release infomation that does not appear to be classified. What about the video from the gas station and the hotel across from the Pentagon. Why the hell have they not released it?
# posted by : 6:09 AM
: 6:09 AM
here is something to think about...
If you know anything about controlled demolition, you know that almost 50% of the exterior walls and aux. beams and trusses are removed to allow the building to fall as we all see on TV. CD can not work without massive weakening of the structure beforehand. This takes weeks and could not be hidden from the thousands of non-gov. workers in and out of the towers. Just think of the thousands of feet of det. cord required to set off those explosives... Come on people THINK
If you know anything about controlled demolition, you know that almost 50% of the exterior walls and aux. beams and trusses are removed to allow the building to fall as we all see on TV. CD can not work without massive weakening of the structure beforehand. This takes weeks and could not be hidden from the thousands of non-gov. workers in and out of the towers. Just think of the thousands of feet of det. cord required to set off those explosives... Come on people THINK
# posted by : 6:32 AM
: 6:32 AM
O ponto fraco dos defensores dos actos terroristas no ataque às Torres (WTC) , Pentágono e Voo 93, é que não aparece nenhum avião no Pentágono. A partir daqui, vê-se logo toda a aldrabice do Governo Americano, que compromete a simpatia que os outros povos tinham pelos americanos.
Não é a 1ª vez que os americanos fazem batota: USS Maine; Lusitania; Pear Harbor e WTC. Só que, agora, há Internet e rapidamente muitos ficam a saber o que se passa dando total descredito ao Governo Americano.
A argumentação dos defensores dos terroristas é baseada na emoção e não é factual.
Para quem está na Europa percebe com facilidade que os "insiders" estão em muito maus lençóis, não tardará que haja desentendimentos entre eles e que comecem a falar. Quando começarem as mortes misteriosas é porque alguém começou a falar.
Não é a 1ª vez que os americanos fazem batota: USS Maine; Lusitania; Pear Harbor e WTC. Só que, agora, há Internet e rapidamente muitos ficam a saber o que se passa dando total descredito ao Governo Americano.
A argumentação dos defensores dos terroristas é baseada na emoção e não é factual.
Para quem está na Europa percebe com facilidade que os "insiders" estão em muito maus lençóis, não tardará que haja desentendimentos entre eles e que comecem a falar. Quando começarem as mortes misteriosas é porque alguém começou a falar.
# posted by : 6:39 AM
: 6:39 AM
No rational american believes the government. yes the terrorists did 9/11. but also yes the government knew about it because they wanted to go t "war" on the terrorists.
# posted by : 6:58 AM
: 6:58 AM
Honestly, if there was a real conspiracy, would the government be so sloppy as to leave any "evidence", no...
if there IS a conspiracy by teh government, then they would be planting these theories of controlled demolition and missles to keep people off any real story, which i think is just incompetance on their part to prevent the terrorist attacks from 2 different administration
if there IS a conspiracy by teh government, then they would be planting these theories of controlled demolition and missles to keep people off any real story, which i think is just incompetance on their part to prevent the terrorist attacks from 2 different administration
# posted by : 7:43 AM
: 7:43 AM
Comments on the Pentagon Strike
Flight 77
Pentagon
Loose Change 2d Ed
At first, I believed what came from the news and government about 09.11, but after finding some of these conspiracy theories, I am troubled with believing what really happened.
Flight 77
Pentagon
Loose Change 2d Ed
At first, I believed what came from the news and government about 09.11, but after finding some of these conspiracy theories, I am troubled with believing what really happened.
# posted by : 7:43 AM
: 7:43 AM
Good succint article... it really gets to the heart of the "naysayers".
I reviewed what the 9/11 conspiracy theorists call "TRUTH" only to be sorely disappointed at the shallowness of what they call undeniable "facts".
The so called 75 experts used to move forward the 911truth site sure do not know what they are talking about.
Some 75 experts on the "other side" can produce forensic evidence, scientific analysis, photos, simulations, and expert testimony and yet will not be able to disproved the myths that underlie many conspiracy theories because they only hold to their belief based on feelings and emotions and that feeling is that they all hate Bush.
I reviewed what the 9/11 conspiracy theorists call "TRUTH" only to be sorely disappointed at the shallowness of what they call undeniable "facts".
The so called 75 experts used to move forward the 911truth site sure do not know what they are talking about.
Some 75 experts on the "other side" can produce forensic evidence, scientific analysis, photos, simulations, and expert testimony and yet will not be able to disproved the myths that underlie many conspiracy theories because they only hold to their belief based on feelings and emotions and that feeling is that they all hate Bush.
Let me get this straight: Our government is cunning enough to pull 9/11 wool over our eyes - a conspiracy that would have to involve thousands omerta-bound Americans, and yet not cunning enough to hide a few WMD containers/warheads somewhere in Iraq to be triumphantly "found" after invasion? Hilarious...
# posted by : 8:27 AM
: 8:27 AM
I do not believe that the government was involved in the planning o the 9/11 tragedy. However, there are many questions that have not been answered properly. The two big ones in my mind are how was the plane that hit the Pentagon able to do this more than 45 minutes after the first plane hit the WTC building? The other question that is never addressed by the conspiracy debunkers is why did the third WTC building fall 7 hours after the twin towers?
# posted by : 8:29 AM
: 8:29 AM
Exerpts from http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/911mythsblog
CLAIM: No fighter jets were scrambled from any of the 28 Air Force bases within close range of the four hijacked flights. "On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C.," says the Web site emperors-clothes.com. "They failed to do their job." "There is only one explanation for this," writes Mark R. Elsis of StandDown.net. "Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11."
FACT: On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.
Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.
CLAIM:"It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers," says the Web site oilempire.us. "When the Air Force 'scrambles' a fighter plane to intercept, they usually reach the plane in question in minutes."
FACT: In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.
CLAIM: No fighter jets were scrambled from any of the 28 Air Force bases within close range of the four hijacked flights. "On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C.," says the Web site emperors-clothes.com. "They failed to do their job." "There is only one explanation for this," writes Mark R. Elsis of StandDown.net. "Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11."
FACT: On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.
Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.
CLAIM:"It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers," says the Web site oilempire.us. "When the Air Force 'scrambles' a fighter plane to intercept, they usually reach the plane in question in minutes."
FACT: In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.
# posted by : 8:42 AM
: 8:42 AM
It is obvious that it was faked. Just like the Moon landing was faked, CIA poisoned Tylenol, election(s) were rigged, Kennedy plot, we shot down Challenger shuttle and sent CIA frogmen to take out Steve Irwin.
Coming up with a wacky contrary opinion happens with every major event. There is a reason they call paranoids delusional. You don't debate people like this. You just quietly back away.
Coming up with a wacky contrary opinion happens with every major event. There is a reason they call paranoids delusional. You don't debate people like this. You just quietly back away.
# posted by : 8:47 AM
: 8:47 AM
In order to believe that this was a conspiracy, you have to believe that OBL and Muslim extremists didn't and don't want to wage war on the US. For the life of me, I don't know who could possibly believe that.
I'm getting sick and tired of the wacko conspiracies, too. They make the entire anti-war movement look like idiots.
The only conspiracy was gross incompetence of the Bush administration and denial of Clinton's emphasis on the threat of Osama Bin Laden.
The only conspiracy was gross incompetence of the Bush administration and denial of Clinton's emphasis on the threat of Osama Bin Laden.
# posted by : 8:53 AM
: 8:53 AM
just because the government was or couled have been involved, which I believe they were, doesn't mean 9/11 still can't be deemed as a terrorist
(a person, or persons, who use terrorism in the pursuit of political aims) attack.
(a person, or persons, who use terrorism in the pursuit of political aims) attack.
# posted by : 9:02 AM
: 9:02 AM
We are in World War Three right now, and it is everyone against the Muslims. Worldwide. Face it, that's what it is. The cadre of people around the Presidency know this too. They needed a catastrophic event to get us in.
Bush COULD have simply said what the threat was, that Muslims were trying to murder anyone who disagrees with their religeon but he would have been called crazy. So they 'engineered' the event.
I disagree with their method, but agree that it had to be done.
Bush COULD have simply said what the threat was, that Muslims were trying to murder anyone who disagrees with their religeon but he would have been called crazy. So they 'engineered' the event.
I disagree with their method, but agree that it had to be done.
# posted by : 9:11 AM
: 9:11 AM
Where is the government evidence that some speak of? Where is camera footage that shows the jet liner hitting the Pentagon? The honest news footage from 911 backs up the 911 Truth Movement. Watch the 3 WTC (that's right, one of them was not hit by a jet, yet it free-fell like the other two) turn to dust and free fall implode. Compare this to other footage of building brought down by controlled demolition, and they look exactly the same. Squib charges and all. Now find some footage of other buildings that "collapse" from fire that look like that to back up the government's story. You can't! Why? Because it has NEVER happened. A building on fire simply won't implode in a controlled demolition like, free-fall fashion.
I could go on and on. I urge everyone to watch all of the news footage from 911 objectively. Don't pay any attention to the 911 truthers, or the government, or the Popular Mechanics pundits. Don't get emotional over it. Watch and listen to all of the footage, and figure it out for yourself. If you are an intelligent, rational, objective human being, you will come to the conclusion that the government's "conspiracy theory" is the most outrageous of all.
Demand the truth, not what you want to hear. The 911 Commission, that started its investigation over 400 days after 911, was crippled by too little funding, and too many restrictions on what it could look into. The details of that day have been obfuscated by many powers and entities. The 911 Commission was not a proper, complete investigation. Demand a thorough investigation to get to the honest to God truth. Demand the truth. The truth with a ALL facts and footage to back it up.
I could go on and on. I urge everyone to watch all of the news footage from 911 objectively. Don't pay any attention to the 911 truthers, or the government, or the Popular Mechanics pundits. Don't get emotional over it. Watch and listen to all of the footage, and figure it out for yourself. If you are an intelligent, rational, objective human being, you will come to the conclusion that the government's "conspiracy theory" is the most outrageous of all.
Demand the truth, not what you want to hear. The 911 Commission, that started its investigation over 400 days after 911, was crippled by too little funding, and too many restrictions on what it could look into. The details of that day have been obfuscated by many powers and entities. The 911 Commission was not a proper, complete investigation. Demand a thorough investigation to get to the honest to God truth. Demand the truth. The truth with a ALL facts and footage to back it up.
# posted by : 9:38 AM
: 9:38 AM
What I haven't figured out is why noone is thanking the terrorist movement for helping strengthen our nations financial and economic markets. Prior to 9-11 a severe blow to wall street could have created another depress! Now all the information is distributed so that it will take 10's of multiples of attacks to affect the markets. Also they have accellerated our protection of many banking systems and improved our knowledge monitoring processes. I for one see many positive changes that have been advanced due to our terrorist friends and we should be thankful for their efforts and sacrifices to help make our country even better!
# posted by : 10:13 AM
: 10:13 AM
To my observation, 911 is a light to reveal a core difference among people. Some people are hungry for truth. Others are allergic and they will mock and accuse and rage against those who threaten to undermine "belief in the system". Because that is all these Stepfordish people have to keep them going. Notice the uniformity of response from 911 Truth Deniers; almost seems to be an unspoken brotherhood among them. They are truth deniers ,in general, I find.
Now the perps are running scared and put forth people like Art Bell, Hannity, etc, to continue to try to derail this movement. In my mind that makes them agents, not journalists. Paid agents who attempted to enslave the American People. They should not be forgiven for this. Too many have died for their lies.
Now the perps are running scared and put forth people like Art Bell, Hannity, etc, to continue to try to derail this movement. In my mind that makes them agents, not journalists. Paid agents who attempted to enslave the American People. They should not be forgiven for this. Too many have died for their lies.
# posted by : 10:23 AM
: 10:23 AM
I agree with Jeff.
Check this link:
http://www.rense.com/general73/ehind.htm
Despite what the Popular Mechanics "gentlemen" would have you believe, many experts in many fields, in the US and the rest of the world have come out in question of the government's claims of 911.
It's all out there for all to read and see for themselves.
Check this link:
http://www.rense.com/general73/ehind.htm
Despite what the Popular Mechanics "gentlemen" would have you believe, many experts in many fields, in the US and the rest of the world have come out in question of the government's claims of 911.
It's all out there for all to read and see for themselves.
# posted by : 10:27 AM
: 10:27 AM
What most of the left wing nuts don't understand is that their conspiracies are just recycled from the right wing nuts. I've heard it all before. One of the advantages of beleiving this crap is never having to stand up for your country, never having to be a patriot. These people are sorry and pitiable human beings.
# posted by : 10:31 AM
: 10:31 AM
The "inside job" theory is giving the government too much credit. If they were smart enough to pull an inside job they would not have caused a situation where people are so desparate to remove us from their country and stop us from supporting Israel that they are resorting to "Kamakazi" acts of destruction. The only way to stop getting stung is to stop stirring the hornet's nest.
# posted by : 10:31 AM
: 10:31 AM
I’m glad to see the interesting points of view here. I’m glad that we all share the freedoms that we do in this country. I’m proud that you are all my American brothers and sisters regardless of your opinions.
I have seen some compelling footage of government involvement. I stumbled upon the "911 cover up / Loose Change" documentary by Dylan Avery on google video. From the evidence provided from various sources, I believe that this was a government plot to achieve its agenda.
To address previous posts, I BELIEVE IT’S A GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY. I DO NOT “WANT” TO BELIEVE THIS, BUT I DO.
To reveal the truth will be a blow to our country’s credibility to the rest of the world, an embarrassment to this great nation, likely the most shameful event in our history.
It’s like finding out your father or brother has committed a murder. Do you search for evidence, or do you avoid it? Do you remain silent, or do you turn him in? It would be quite a dilemma. Turning him in shames your family name, possibly turns the rest of your family against you, creates hardship for everyone. But, turning him in is the only morally correct thing to do.
With this in mind, should we just remain silent? Maybe they did it for the greater good; to keep our cars running for a couple more generations; to spur our economy so I can keep my job; maybe some other reason that I don’t know.
I believe we need to find the courage to face the facts in this corrupt situation, search for the evidence, and morally clear our consciences of this tragedy. Expose the truth despite the pain. Only this will allow our nation to move ahead with honest, trustworthy leaders and bring honor back to this great nation.
I have seen some compelling footage of government involvement. I stumbled upon the "911 cover up / Loose Change" documentary by Dylan Avery on google video. From the evidence provided from various sources, I believe that this was a government plot to achieve its agenda.
To address previous posts, I BELIEVE IT’S A GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY. I DO NOT “WANT” TO BELIEVE THIS, BUT I DO.
To reveal the truth will be a blow to our country’s credibility to the rest of the world, an embarrassment to this great nation, likely the most shameful event in our history.
It’s like finding out your father or brother has committed a murder. Do you search for evidence, or do you avoid it? Do you remain silent, or do you turn him in? It would be quite a dilemma. Turning him in shames your family name, possibly turns the rest of your family against you, creates hardship for everyone. But, turning him in is the only morally correct thing to do.
With this in mind, should we just remain silent? Maybe they did it for the greater good; to keep our cars running for a couple more generations; to spur our economy so I can keep my job; maybe some other reason that I don’t know.
I believe we need to find the courage to face the facts in this corrupt situation, search for the evidence, and morally clear our consciences of this tragedy. Expose the truth despite the pain. Only this will allow our nation to move ahead with honest, trustworthy leaders and bring honor back to this great nation.
# posted by : 10:34 AM
: 10:34 AM
Believe what you see and know to be logical....not just some baloney fed to you by the BushCo. propaganda machine. Think about how far Enron went to make money at the expense of innocent people, how far would BushCo go? kill innocent people?
# posted by : 10:35 AM
: 10:35 AM
Hello, I don’t need scientific evidence to know that 3 steal buildings disintegrating in mid air is very suspicious. Jet fuel is diesel fuel and no way can it get hot enough to melt all of the steal members In all three building. So how did tower 7 fall, I have video footage of Larry Silverstein saying that it was pulled. I also have video footage of CNN changing its story about what happened at the Pentagon. Also on top of that all of the scanner recordings have beeps covering up all of the fire fighters radio transmissions, you can only hear the dispatch. How much more do you need?
# posted by : 11:15 AM
: 11:15 AM
What kind of worthless article is this? It has a title that hints that an answer might lie inside the article... but then, says nothing. What's the significance of this article?
There are hunderds of questions that people have concerning 9/11 that are not being answered by anyone. Hundreds of thousands (including the victims' families) feel that many of those questions will help them understand better why their loved ones died.
When a servant goverment fails to respond to the masters, we the people - no matter what the questions might be - then there is a problem. The questions are irrelevant... the accusations are irrelevant... the probability of those accusations are irrelevant. What is relevant is when the servant feels it no longer has to serve We The People, but can decide to become the master.
Conpiracy is everywhere. When a husband cheats on his wife, and asks his friends to help lie about where he was last night - that is a conspiracy. Not a very interesting one, but one none-the-less.
To say that people who believe that more than one person has conspired to fool others for a specific end purpose are not within reason, is tandem to saying no government has EVER tried to manipulate it's constiuents. Since we all know that that has happened all throughout history, why bash those who are testing to see if we are being manipulated again? Why are they the "bad guys" when they are trying to get to the truth for not only themselves, but for all Americans.
And, I'm not sure why all these "conspiracy debunkers" write articles calling people names, but have never address one accusation with any real argument. The only rebuttles are name-calling and absurd statements like "there were no core columns", or "the Twin Towers were poorly built", or, then again, ANY claim that buidlings can fall faster than Newton's Law of Falling Bodies. The laws of physics cannot be altered... no matter how much an Op Ed piece, or any article, tries to make it so.
So, again, what is the purpose of this article? Sounds like a "look at me, I have an opinion!" article. Which, of course, is fine by me. That's what being an American means... although you would never know it with our current regime... err... goverment in place.
When we have decided that certain parts of the Constitution do not need to be adhered to, we have then decided to become slaves to our servant. Something I do not want... how about you?
There are hunderds of questions that people have concerning 9/11 that are not being answered by anyone. Hundreds of thousands (including the victims' families) feel that many of those questions will help them understand better why their loved ones died.
When a servant goverment fails to respond to the masters, we the people - no matter what the questions might be - then there is a problem. The questions are irrelevant... the accusations are irrelevant... the probability of those accusations are irrelevant. What is relevant is when the servant feels it no longer has to serve We The People, but can decide to become the master.
Conpiracy is everywhere. When a husband cheats on his wife, and asks his friends to help lie about where he was last night - that is a conspiracy. Not a very interesting one, but one none-the-less.
To say that people who believe that more than one person has conspired to fool others for a specific end purpose are not within reason, is tandem to saying no government has EVER tried to manipulate it's constiuents. Since we all know that that has happened all throughout history, why bash those who are testing to see if we are being manipulated again? Why are they the "bad guys" when they are trying to get to the truth for not only themselves, but for all Americans.
And, I'm not sure why all these "conspiracy debunkers" write articles calling people names, but have never address one accusation with any real argument. The only rebuttles are name-calling and absurd statements like "there were no core columns", or "the Twin Towers were poorly built", or, then again, ANY claim that buidlings can fall faster than Newton's Law of Falling Bodies. The laws of physics cannot be altered... no matter how much an Op Ed piece, or any article, tries to make it so.
So, again, what is the purpose of this article? Sounds like a "look at me, I have an opinion!" article. Which, of course, is fine by me. That's what being an American means... although you would never know it with our current regime... err... goverment in place.
When we have decided that certain parts of the Constitution do not need to be adhered to, we have then decided to become slaves to our servant. Something I do not want... how about you?
# posted by : 11:26 AM
: 11:26 AM
Speaking of denial, please research the one truth that denires will not talk about. That perhaps the United States government and some of its policies and actions resulted in this attack and the others we all fear will follow.
For all the good American may do around the world world one would think we would be revered by ALL as the great country this adminstration continues to claim we are.
A truely great leading country, group or individual leads by example. Not by saying one thing and actually doing another, when it may be deemed necessary to "protect the Homeland".
A truely great leader will take action to work cooperatively for all the planets inhabitents both at the podium, in press releases, prepared speaches and especially behind closed doors.
A truely great country will work cooperatively with all and for all regarding the security of all, with imput from all to face common advasarys to a free and healthy way of life.
The Chaneys, Rumsfields, Bushes and many of their supporters have lowered the bar. They and their attitudes and actions as much as anyone elses agenda have jeopardized the very things they want to protect. But they appear to want to protect this claim that American is the greatest.
Perhaps it once was.
For all the good American may do around the world world one would think we would be revered by ALL as the great country this adminstration continues to claim we are.
A truely great leading country, group or individual leads by example. Not by saying one thing and actually doing another, when it may be deemed necessary to "protect the Homeland".
A truely great leader will take action to work cooperatively for all the planets inhabitents both at the podium, in press releases, prepared speaches and especially behind closed doors.
A truely great country will work cooperatively with all and for all regarding the security of all, with imput from all to face common advasarys to a free and healthy way of life.
The Chaneys, Rumsfields, Bushes and many of their supporters have lowered the bar. They and their attitudes and actions as much as anyone elses agenda have jeopardized the very things they want to protect. But they appear to want to protect this claim that American is the greatest.
Perhaps it once was.
# posted by : 11:28 AM
: 11:28 AM
I believe there are many facts that aren't being discussed. The most interesting "true" facts:
Bush was on a CNN forum w/audience and claimed to be in shock when he saw the first plane hit the towers on TV when he was at the elementary school. Impossible... because only the french documentary bros. had video of it happening (No news coverage).
The second fact is the non-pentagon camera footage taken from a gas station and hotel after the "object" hit the pentagon. Why not show it?
Next, WTC #7 building collapsed str8 down at 5pm with very minimal damage. Many important reasons to review online what offices and potential evidence/info was in that building. Most of which not 9/11 evidence but SEC info, documents, etc. Offices of FBI, CIA, DOD, IRS and SEC were in WTC#7. Fell at freefall speed in 6 seconds (47 story building). Which leads to the biggest fact.
The largest fact is actually a law. Galileo's law of falling bodies calculates time an object falls in freefall. Distance= 16.08 X seconds squared. Distance (height of trade center) 1362ft = 16.08 X (Y). Y=84.7 Square Root of 84.7 is 9.2. Trade Centers fell to ground in under 10 seconds. The pancake theory is impossible with the resistance caused by each stable floor hitting the next one on the way down. The building had to be taken down from under itself. FACT NOT THEORY. Watch "Loose Change" at freepressinternational.911/html Many interviews with firefighters, people from building, and actual news footage confirming all the explosions, lack of plane wreckage, etc.
Bush was on a CNN forum w/audience and claimed to be in shock when he saw the first plane hit the towers on TV when he was at the elementary school. Impossible... because only the french documentary bros. had video of it happening (No news coverage).
The second fact is the non-pentagon camera footage taken from a gas station and hotel after the "object" hit the pentagon. Why not show it?
Next, WTC #7 building collapsed str8 down at 5pm with very minimal damage. Many important reasons to review online what offices and potential evidence/info was in that building. Most of which not 9/11 evidence but SEC info, documents, etc. Offices of FBI, CIA, DOD, IRS and SEC were in WTC#7. Fell at freefall speed in 6 seconds (47 story building). Which leads to the biggest fact.
The largest fact is actually a law. Galileo's law of falling bodies calculates time an object falls in freefall. Distance= 16.08 X seconds squared. Distance (height of trade center) 1362ft = 16.08 X (Y). Y=84.7 Square Root of 84.7 is 9.2. Trade Centers fell to ground in under 10 seconds. The pancake theory is impossible with the resistance caused by each stable floor hitting the next one on the way down. The building had to be taken down from under itself. FACT NOT THEORY. Watch "Loose Change" at freepressinternational.911/html Many interviews with firefighters, people from building, and actual news footage confirming all the explosions, lack of plane wreckage, etc.
# posted by : 12:04 PM
: 12:04 PM
Oh, and I didnt even go into the fact that it is documented that flight 93 landed in Cleveland and was on the ground when it supposedly crashed in PA.
# posted by : 12:08 PM
: 12:08 PM
You wouldn't accept the truth no matter what! It is like talking to 5 yr old who closes his/her ears and screams "NA NA NA NA NA ..." as you try to reason. There is no reasoning with these people, why does anyone even try? Totally unproductive effort and an utter waste of one's time.
# posted by : 12:15 PM
: 12:15 PM
yes this all a waste of time you can't have a debate when emotions are involved .too many on each side feel in their heart that their side is right and therefore will not ever accept anything the other side suggests.
# posted by : 12:44 PM
: 12:44 PM
These conspiracy people need to realize that the magnitude of destruction that resulted from this attack.
Yes there is footage of the plane hitting the pentagon. I dont remember where I saw it unfortunatley but i did see it.
Do we not forget the cell phone calls from people on the planes before they hit and before the plane hit the ground. The goverment must have gotten them in on the conspiracy also. They must have paid those wives alot of money to lie. And if you believe that then as the other person said let me sell you some beachfront property in the Mohave desert.
And lets not forget radical muslims want you dead. There is no tolerance it's their way or the highway.
My view is forget about this conspiracy bullshit. As others said if you dont like America get the F--- out. Go live in a country where you dont have as many liberties and freedom.
Yes there is footage of the plane hitting the pentagon. I dont remember where I saw it unfortunatley but i did see it.
Do we not forget the cell phone calls from people on the planes before they hit and before the plane hit the ground. The goverment must have gotten them in on the conspiracy also. They must have paid those wives alot of money to lie. And if you believe that then as the other person said let me sell you some beachfront property in the Mohave desert.
And lets not forget radical muslims want you dead. There is no tolerance it's their way or the highway.
My view is forget about this conspiracy bullshit. As others said if you dont like America get the F--- out. Go live in a country where you dont have as many liberties and freedom.
# posted by : 5:16 PM
: 5:16 PM
The real conspiracy is these those who say they know what happened, but don't go far enough.
Fact: Tower one was not hit by a plane but was hit by satelite guided lasers. This was because the 9/11 planners wanted to make sure a different method was used in every attack: lasers, plane, missle, plane shot down by plane. At least we can all agree that it makes no sense to use planes in every attack (not creative!)
Fact: Planes (and and lasers) hitting buildings and controlled demolitions are just not enough to bring down these buildings. Let's all be frank here: how many other 100+ story buildings that have been hit by planes (and lasers) and then with controlled explosives have fallen so quickly? Anyone who has done extensive studies of each of the atoms involved (as I have) knows that there is no other explantion that accounts for the falling except planes+lasers+explosives+anti-gravity ray.
Questions!:
-Why would Osama bin Laden want to attack the US?
-Would you find it strange if I told you that the military rehearsed scenarios in some way similar to the 9/11 attacks before they happened!? Would you find it stranger that they did many other scenarios before that had nothing to do with 9/11 (did they manage to throw you off with that red-herring, Soma-eater????)?
-Is Larry Silverstien the head of the Illuminati? Why would the government want to destroy the Twin Towers to give him insurance money, unless he is the one pulling all the strings?
-Why did all of the animals (dogs, cats, rats, ferrets, etc.) leave New York on September 10th as reported on CNN?
-Could hundreds of tons of burning debris falling on WTC7 really cause it to collapse? Or perhaps the fact that it was made of unbreakable steel to hold the Arc of the Covenent means the true answer is that it was teleported to Romania for use as a secret prison?
-Have you ever seen George H. W. Bush and George W Bush in the same place at the same time (nice comeback, evil one!)?
Wake up people, you are the same ones who believe that Columbine was just 2 crazy kids, that Nataleee Hollaway just disapeared into thin air, and that hurricane Katrina was caused by "Mother Nature"! Larry Silverstein rules you all.
Fact: Tower one was not hit by a plane but was hit by satelite guided lasers. This was because the 9/11 planners wanted to make sure a different method was used in every attack: lasers, plane, missle, plane shot down by plane. At least we can all agree that it makes no sense to use planes in every attack (not creative!)
Fact: Planes (and and lasers) hitting buildings and controlled demolitions are just not enough to bring down these buildings. Let's all be frank here: how many other 100+ story buildings that have been hit by planes (and lasers) and then with controlled explosives have fallen so quickly? Anyone who has done extensive studies of each of the atoms involved (as I have) knows that there is no other explantion that accounts for the falling except planes+lasers+explosives+anti-gravity ray.
Questions!:
-Why would Osama bin Laden want to attack the US?
-Would you find it strange if I told you that the military rehearsed scenarios in some way similar to the 9/11 attacks before they happened!? Would you find it stranger that they did many other scenarios before that had nothing to do with 9/11 (did they manage to throw you off with that red-herring, Soma-eater????)?
-Is Larry Silverstien the head of the Illuminati? Why would the government want to destroy the Twin Towers to give him insurance money, unless he is the one pulling all the strings?
-Why did all of the animals (dogs, cats, rats, ferrets, etc.) leave New York on September 10th as reported on CNN?
-Could hundreds of tons of burning debris falling on WTC7 really cause it to collapse? Or perhaps the fact that it was made of unbreakable steel to hold the Arc of the Covenent means the true answer is that it was teleported to Romania for use as a secret prison?
-Have you ever seen George H. W. Bush and George W Bush in the same place at the same time (nice comeback, evil one!)?
Wake up people, you are the same ones who believe that Columbine was just 2 crazy kids, that Nataleee Hollaway just disapeared into thin air, and that hurricane Katrina was caused by "Mother Nature"! Larry Silverstein rules you all.
# posted by : 8:31 PM
: 8:31 PM
Yes, they're all nutjobs, he says... each and every one of these people are in it for the fun of it... just rolling around and soaking up the joy that results from realizing the government may have killed its own citizens while devoting every moment of their free time to alerting others at the risk of losing their jobs and alienating themselves from their friends.
What a joke...
All of these people must be crazy, too:
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/
What a joke...
All of these people must be crazy, too:
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/
They're not all nutjobs, Sean.
Most of them are just ignorant (and a bit lazy). They don't want to take the effort to do a lot of actual research. You'll notice that on this site when there are links to many other resources disproving the conspiracies, there are no comments. But on this post many of the theorists are saying: where is your proof? Go to one of the other posts, read the content in the links and then respond. I read your link and didn't find any facts of consequence there, mostly just the following:
"I find your report seriously flawed in its failure to address serious intelligence issues that I am aware of, which have been confirmed, and which as a witness to the commission, I made you aware of. Thus, I must assume that other serious issues that I am not aware of were in the same manner omitted from your report. These omissions cast doubt on the validity of your report and therefore on its conclusions and recommendations.”
If there is more info I should be aware of please let me know.
Some of them are just very uncomfortable with life being unfair: they don't like the idea that a relatively small amount of people can get together and kill a lot of people (and that next time it might be them). It feels a lot better to believe that, no it's not someone I have no power over, it's actually the same people I've been fighting all along that is responsible!
Most of them are just ignorant (and a bit lazy). They don't want to take the effort to do a lot of actual research. You'll notice that on this site when there are links to many other resources disproving the conspiracies, there are no comments. But on this post many of the theorists are saying: where is your proof? Go to one of the other posts, read the content in the links and then respond. I read your link and didn't find any facts of consequence there, mostly just the following:
"I find your report seriously flawed in its failure to address serious intelligence issues that I am aware of, which have been confirmed, and which as a witness to the commission, I made you aware of. Thus, I must assume that other serious issues that I am not aware of were in the same manner omitted from your report. These omissions cast doubt on the validity of your report and therefore on its conclusions and recommendations.”
If there is more info I should be aware of please let me know.
Some of them are just very uncomfortable with life being unfair: they don't like the idea that a relatively small amount of people can get together and kill a lot of people (and that next time it might be them). It feels a lot better to believe that, no it's not someone I have no power over, it's actually the same people I've been fighting all along that is responsible!
# posted by : 9:14 PM
: 9:14 PM
Inside job! You don't think YOUR guvmint will do you in. Just google "Operation Northwoods" and see what YOUR guvmint was willing to do to overthrow Cuba. They were going to kill U! Instead "they" got rid of JFK since he stopped them in their tracks. Yes, you are expendable.
# posted by : 9:43 PM
: 9:43 PM
Google "Operation Gladio" if you still don't think your government will eat ya. This happened in Europe with CIA and NATO cooperation. Yes some Americans in high places were involved.
# posted by : 10:00 PM
: 10:00 PM
WHO WROTE THIS BULLSH**T WE HAVE THE FACTS & DOCUMENTATION TO BACK UP EVERY THING WE STATE,THIS IS SOME ONE WHO IS WORKING FOR THE PROPAGANDIST IN ORDER TO CONFUSE YOU LIKE THEY KNOW THE TRUTH AND CAN BACK IT UP WITH FACTS,IF THE 9/11 COMMISSION DIDN'T HAVE ANY FACTS AND DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO PRESENT ANY WHAT MAKE U THINK THAT THEY HAVE THE FACTS,HERE IS JUST A SMALL EXAMPLE, WHY DIDN'T THE COMMISSION HERE FROM THE THOUSANDS OF EYEWITNESSES TESTIMONIES WHO WERE ON THE SCENE,FIREMAN POLICE PARAMEDICS OBSERVERS AND SO ON,THERE'S NOTHING BETTER THAN AN EYEWITNESS IT'S THE BEST PEACE OF EVIDENCE THAT U CAN HAVE IN ANY WHODUNIT CASE WHY DID THEY BAR ALL EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY,AND WITH THAT I REST MY CASE!
# posted by : 11:30 PM
: 11:30 PM
although I agree that the twin towers were brought down by terrorists, I feel the authors assessment of the denialists is shallow. The people of the United States were told a fantasmogoric fairy tale about WMD in Iraq; a concocted story that came from the highest levels of the current administration. Fabrications were misrepresented to the UN and many nations and were curiously unexplored by the press. This scam has cost the lives of thousands and thousands of men, women and children. Almost certainly, if anyone had attempted to predict this scenario before it happened they would have been labelled a crackpot. Yet it happened. Therefore, it is entirely understandable that a fraction of the population would support thought processes (designated here as denialism) that are based on such a recent history of government-led distortions.
# posted by : 12:09 PM
: 12:09 PM
If Bush and Co. are able to conspire to "create" 9/11; why haven't they been able to manufacture WMD's in remote areas of Iraq? The two ideas conflict with one another.
I wonder how much of this lunacy would occur if a Democrat were in the White House in September, 01?
I concur with the author's premise. The conspiracy crowd wants us to believe that Bush is an evil genius, masterminding government attacks on our own soil. However, in the same breath, they will tell you POTUS is a moron, Bushmonkey, etc.
Wake up, get out of your mom's basement and get a real job!
I wonder how much of this lunacy would occur if a Democrat were in the White House in September, 01?
I concur with the author's premise. The conspiracy crowd wants us to believe that Bush is an evil genius, masterminding government attacks on our own soil. However, in the same breath, they will tell you POTUS is a moron, Bushmonkey, etc.
Wake up, get out of your mom's basement and get a real job!
# posted by : 11:43 AM
: 11:43 AM
Truthers are being conditioned into hatred of the Goverment by rogue elements from the cold war intelligence community, foreign instigators, and a supporting cast from anarchists to skin heads and plain old anti-semites.
Their reactions here indicate that some among them are nearly ready to commit acts of violence.
Hatred of jews....hatred of others not "pure" or "enlightend".
All they need is a charasmatic figure to rise up and lead them to facism.
Their reactions here indicate that some among them are nearly ready to commit acts of violence.
Hatred of jews....hatred of others not "pure" or "enlightend".
All they need is a charasmatic figure to rise up and lead them to facism.
# posted by : 6:01 PM
: 6:01 PM
Hey MP...guess I spread too much truth over on nutscape...I've been banned and all my posts have been purged...I hope you got my last message...you'll know why...
I NAILED the truthers on their underlying anti-semitism.
The person who made threats against me is still a member.. the anti-semitic retoric is still laced comeplelty through their boards...and little old me who pointed out the obvious was silenced....so they think..
Now they will know why carlin said "dont frak with the Zeitgeist"
I will notify every jewish group I can find and give them links to the dripping anti-semitism running rampent on nutscape...I will inform the MILLIONS of free republic members of nutscapes actions, and I will spread the word to the hundreds of people I know who personally are outraged at jew haters..
I need a way to keep in touch with you...I hope you see this soon.
Zeigeist
I NAILED the truthers on their underlying anti-semitism.
The person who made threats against me is still a member.. the anti-semitic retoric is still laced comeplelty through their boards...and little old me who pointed out the obvious was silenced....so they think..
Now they will know why carlin said "dont frak with the Zeitgeist"
I will notify every jewish group I can find and give them links to the dripping anti-semitism running rampent on nutscape...I will inform the MILLIONS of free republic members of nutscapes actions, and I will spread the word to the hundreds of people I know who personally are outraged at jew haters..
I need a way to keep in touch with you...I hope you see this soon.
Zeigeist
# posted by : 4:09 PM
: 4:09 PM
If the government wants to prove it was a terrorist attack they should release the security footage of the plane hitting the pentagon. Not just 5 frames.
# posted by : 1:04 PM
: 1:04 PM
If the truthers wish to prove the Govt did it...then they should at least try and settle on ONE theory instead of shoveling crap against the wall to see what sticks...
Ok, not for nothing, but a diatribe implies two people speaking, not one. But that's hardly the point.
The "denier" movement has two major problems, as I see it. First, they choose to ignore evidence that does not suit their purposes. For example, none of them ever talk about the concave bowing of the perimeter walls of the Twin Towers, which evidences that the internal floors were sagging and bringing the perimeter wall with them. It was witnessed by NYPD officials more than 20 minutes before the first collapse. Controlled demolitions require simultaneous or at least contemporaneous explosions at key weight-bearing points. They don't cause bowing. They cause an immediate and catastrophic collapse.
Another example is this "cruise missile" thing. It is the most ridiculous use of a sound bite probably in the history of journalism and conspiracy theory. For those who are unfamiliar, there is a news clip of a man who witnessed the crash into the Pentagon. The sound bite used says (paraphrased) "it was like a cruise missile, with wings, and it went straight into the building." This clip has been beaten to death by the denier movement as evidence that "an eyewitness reported seeing a missile". Really? Is that what one gets from the entire interview (which is about an extra 20 seconds before the referenced comment) in which the witness reported seeing (again paraphrased) "a plane flying way too low; a jet, an American Airlines jet; and it was like a cruise missile, with wings...".
Finally on this issue, the deniers love to point to the video of WTC7 coming down by showing the pristine north face of the building appear to suddenly collapse into the street. They never want to show the south face of WTC7 before the collapse. You know, the face of the building that actually faced the towers and was damaged when WTC1 came down?
(By the way, I'm sure the government conspiracists are delighted that Bin Laden went along with the plan and took credit for the mission.)
The other problem with the deniers is the mixed message. When the first one, i.e. that the US Gov't brought down our own buildings, is debunked with obvious truth, the second one rears its head: the US Government was completely incompetent. See comment #3, 1:54 p.m. Ok, fine, they were incompetent. I'll grant you that, regardless of the depth of truth. But that's pretty far away from a claim of an intentional, controlled demolition that was somehow set up by the government to take place an hour or so after a hijacked plane hit each of the towers, killing thousands of American citizens, including 343 NYC firemen.
You've convinced the lunatic fringe. It's not really all that hard. They post their ALL CAPS arguments that make no sense and draw from 11 different conspiracy theories to make a non-sequitur point. Want to convince the rest of us? Figure out a factual basis beyond "boy that building sure came down fast", and "anyone who disagrees with me is a government shill". I have an open mind, but I'm not going to blindly follow you guys either. Despite the old saying, fiction is almost invariably stranger than truth.
The "denier" movement has two major problems, as I see it. First, they choose to ignore evidence that does not suit their purposes. For example, none of them ever talk about the concave bowing of the perimeter walls of the Twin Towers, which evidences that the internal floors were sagging and bringing the perimeter wall with them. It was witnessed by NYPD officials more than 20 minutes before the first collapse. Controlled demolitions require simultaneous or at least contemporaneous explosions at key weight-bearing points. They don't cause bowing. They cause an immediate and catastrophic collapse.
Another example is this "cruise missile" thing. It is the most ridiculous use of a sound bite probably in the history of journalism and conspiracy theory. For those who are unfamiliar, there is a news clip of a man who witnessed the crash into the Pentagon. The sound bite used says (paraphrased) "it was like a cruise missile, with wings, and it went straight into the building." This clip has been beaten to death by the denier movement as evidence that "an eyewitness reported seeing a missile". Really? Is that what one gets from the entire interview (which is about an extra 20 seconds before the referenced comment) in which the witness reported seeing (again paraphrased) "a plane flying way too low; a jet, an American Airlines jet; and it was like a cruise missile, with wings...".
Finally on this issue, the deniers love to point to the video of WTC7 coming down by showing the pristine north face of the building appear to suddenly collapse into the street. They never want to show the south face of WTC7 before the collapse. You know, the face of the building that actually faced the towers and was damaged when WTC1 came down?
(By the way, I'm sure the government conspiracists are delighted that Bin Laden went along with the plan and took credit for the mission.)
The other problem with the deniers is the mixed message. When the first one, i.e. that the US Gov't brought down our own buildings, is debunked with obvious truth, the second one rears its head: the US Government was completely incompetent. See comment #3, 1:54 p.m. Ok, fine, they were incompetent. I'll grant you that, regardless of the depth of truth. But that's pretty far away from a claim of an intentional, controlled demolition that was somehow set up by the government to take place an hour or so after a hijacked plane hit each of the towers, killing thousands of American citizens, including 343 NYC firemen.
You've convinced the lunatic fringe. It's not really all that hard. They post their ALL CAPS arguments that make no sense and draw from 11 different conspiracy theories to make a non-sequitur point. Want to convince the rest of us? Figure out a factual basis beyond "boy that building sure came down fast", and "anyone who disagrees with me is a government shill". I have an open mind, but I'm not going to blindly follow you guys either. Despite the old saying, fiction is almost invariably stranger than truth.
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: 2:32 PM
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# posted by : 3:41 AM
: 3:41 AM
There is a conspiracy on the Bush administration and you will learn more if you investigate!
I live at 9959 wild rd se Calgary Alberta Canada It will be worth it!!!!!!! I am telling you the truth and I will prove what I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will take a truth sirum and you will hear the truth on 9/11/01!!
I will be waiting for your responce that is if you want to hear the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
S Rod Lutz
I live at 9959 wild rd se Calgary Alberta Canada It will be worth it!!!!!!! I am telling you the truth and I will prove what I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will take a truth sirum and you will hear the truth on 9/11/01!!
I will be waiting for your responce that is if you want to hear the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
S Rod Lutz
# posted by : 3:41 PM
: 3:41 PM
I am writing to you sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I can honestly say that you will never you will never hear the truth until you hear this! I will Prove it!!
Be very careful if you choose to look into this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Be very careful if you choose to look into this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
# posted by : 3:52 PM
: 3:52 PM
I have some information it is on 9/11/01! You will want to know it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has to do with ???????????you Know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Oh that's right you do not know about 9/11/01? Sir I will ask you to be very careful if you look into this! I will not talk on the phone!!
But I will meet with you or one of your agents!!!!!!! Sir if you do not have time!!! Send someone you trust!!!!!!! I live in Calgary Alberta Canada at 9959! I will not talk on the phone about this but once you have met my terms! I will tell you the truth on 9/11/01!!!
You will want to know this!!!!!
But I will meet with you or one of your agents!!!!!!! Sir if you do not have time!!! Send someone you trust!!!!!!! I live in Calgary Alberta Canada at 9959! I will not talk on the phone about this but once you have met my terms! I will tell you the truth on 9/11/01!!!
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# posted by : 9:15 AM
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: 10:31 AM
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